[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[Neville's Breakfast]

I've been to about 20 away games over the last two seasons. Or have I?

All this talk about "must attend to actually get points" is all well and good, and correct. However, what bothers me is that this kind of talk has only just begun to surface. Why?

That's easy, because only now is there a big incentive to buy tickets purely for the points. In past seasons it was easy to get tickets for most games so buying tickets for the loyalty points and not attending would mostly have been daft (end of last season excepted).

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

700 people bought tickets and didn't go Agreed, and several hundred more people who went wouldn't have gone if there hadn't have been loyalty points Huh? No evidence for this, afaik - I'd have surely got a ticket if there hadn't been loyalty points awarded Out of interest, how many LP do you have? I assume that your ST LP are zero (or close to), meaning that you would be relying on member's points? If so, I'm not sure you would have got a ticket anyway. Dunno, maybe you would, but I'm sceptical of that.

The following are from this thread: https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?356426-Bournemouth-away-tomorrow - plus several others who said they were going for the game and the points. Whether these guys actually went, who knows. I've got 80-odd points - yes I do think this game would have got to general sale if there were no loyalty points offered. Brighton fans are very keen for away games this season, but we haven't suddenly become THAT keen!

Have bought ticket mainly for loyalty points but will still go and support the team

Didnt need the points so didnt take a ticket, west ham was then bumped up, so I again needed the points and got a last minute ticket, will be attending with 4 others.

I have a ticket which I purchased just for the points.
But because I have a ticket I will be going.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

duplicate

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I've been to about 20 away games over the last two seasons. Or have I?

You tell us

although I think it only counts if it includes Rotherham and Huddersfield.

 

[Bigtomfu]

You're forgetting that away tickets are non-returnable, non-transferable, and non-refundable.

What a silly sausage I am. Presumably this is season ticket removal worthy?

 

[BN9 BHA]

I think the drive he's referring to is from the Lizard. (His location says "Central Borneo / The Lizard").

Having briefly lived on the Lizard myself, I can confirm that Bournemouth is the nearest Premier League ground. I was amazed how far even Bristol was (190 miles) - and people from Somerset consider themselves "West"!

Maybe Cornwall should be known as the ' far West '

 

[dazzer6666]

Albion away attendances in recent years for the EFL cup (ex Spurs). All of the games in the southern half of the country given the split in early rounds:

Oxford 677
Southend 692
Walsall 411
Swindon 628
Burton 683
Avg 618
Bmuff 652

I have a lot of sympathy for those who can't get tickets for away games at the moment and sure there will have been a number of people who got blocked by others with more loyalty points who purchased for points only or for option value depending on the Friday game but based on previous attendances personally I remain unconvinced that there was demand for another 673 tickets from those who were only interested in attending rather from some also who were interested in getting some points themselves and who may or may not have attended but for whatever reason didnt get manage to get a ticket.

The club should take responsibility here for denying certain people the chance to get tickets. Otherwise they open a can of worms on non attendance by certain season ticket holders at home games (4 next to us have less than 50% occupancy rate in last 6 years), Barnet, Huddersfield etc. There should have been no loyalty points for this game or a first come first served general sale for this game justified by the fact that hardly anyone tends to go to these games and therefore it should not have been the "must" attend game that 70 pages of debate seems to suggest.

Personally I was more annoyed with the performance and the approach taken when we went 1 down than the empty seats (and would gladly give up my points for this game given the anger of some)

Great post.

Still think there is little to be done other than make sure future games with very cheap tickets like this don't carry any loyalty points.

 

[Goldstone1976]

The following are from this thread: https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?356426-Bournemouth-away-tomorrow - plus several others who said they were going for the game and the points. Whether these guys actually went, who knows. I've got 80-odd points - yes I do think this game would have got to general sale if there were no loyalty points offered. Brighton fans are very keen for away games this season, but we haven't suddenly become THAT keen!

Thanks! The only observation I'd make is that there's some difference between a few and "several hundred". However, I'm sure we'd agree that there were far, far too many LP harvesters. I do hope you'll get to an away game this season.

 

[clapham_gull]

I'm sure posted above but a very odd statement from the club on the website. Have only themselves to blame.

Cheap tickets with loyalty points. It's an open invitation.

Can't think of another private company blaming it's customers for exploiting a loophole.

We are either "customers" or not. Make your mind up

 

[Mancgull]

Yes, get that and if I had wanted to go but couldn't for this reason I would have been miffed. However, I do think the club have to be a bit careful in that it was clearly a game that they didn't take particularly seriously either. I think the best approach would be to reconsider strategy in the future rather than take retrospective action.
Theoretically, I could ask for my money back in a future cup game if I feel that the club don't play their strongest 11, if they are to question our commitment by not attending after buying a ticket, which I didn't.

 

[clapham_gull]

What ever the Club decide to do is going to piss a few people off
They are now in a no win situation

Not really.

In the past they rewarded fans for attending low demand cup games to ensure non season ticket holders had a chance (for instance) to attend a play off semi final.

Now we are in the Premier League (first season) all away games are in huge demand (and cheap) so demand well out strips demand.

To offer loyalty points for a cheap away cup game is an own goal I'm afraid. I recall vacuum cleaners and free flights. No-one blamed the customers.

We all make mistakes, Suck it up and move on.

To blame the fans for "abusing" the loyalty system is laughable. Everyone has the right to buy something if something else is on offer.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Over the last 3-5 years I must of gone to ~20 aways using PotG - i.e. ticket not purchased with my Fan number from the BHA ticket office but providing loyal support to the players nonetheless - should I be awarded Loyalty Points retrospectively for this?

I guess this is the opposite of "harvesting" LP aka failing to be awarded LPs for loyal supporting the team.

For me, it comes down to the definition of Loyalty - is it a) showing your support by attending the match to cheer the team or b) showing financial support by buying a ticket?

If it's b) then buying club merchandise should also earn LPs

 

[Steve in Japan]

I'm sure posted above but a very odd statement from the club on the website. Have only themselves to blame.

Cheap tickets with loyalty points. It's an open invitation.

Can't think of another private company blaming it's customers for exploiting a loophole.

We are either "customers" or not. Make your mind up

We are neither customers, nor fans, but rather naughty schoolchildren, based on that missive.

The Club have a habit of public over-reaction, which I think they need to get out of. All this over some frankly irrelevant cup-tie, which we were never going to take seriously. As previously noted, I didn't buy a ticket, but if I was one of the ones on the naughty step, I'd be tempted to say "I'll turn up when you do".

 

[Bwian]

We are neither customers, nor fans, but rather naughty schoolchildren, based on that missive.

The Club have a habit of public over-reaction, which I think they need to get out of. All this over some frankly irrelevant cup-tie, which we were never going to take seriously. As previously noted, I didn't buy a ticket, but if I was one of the ones on the naughty step, I'd be tempted to say "I'll turn up when you do".

I think that the club, in this case at least, were probably badgered into making their ridiculous statement by one or two people-now they've stopped screaming for policemen.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes, get that and if I had wanted to go but couldn't for this reason I would have been miffed. However, I do think the club have to be a bit careful in that it was clearly a game that they didn't take particularly seriously either. I think the best approach would be to reconsider strategy in the future rather than take retrospective action.
Theoretically, I could ask for my money back in a future cup game if I feel that the club don't play their strongest 11, if they are to question our commitment by not attending after buying a ticket, which I didn't.

The two aren't linked. The club are running a loyalty scheme where they are looking to reward the support of regular supporters. That's it. Whatever they do with their loyalty scheme doesn't confer any reciprocal rights on to fans. You, I, anybody else don't have any rights at all. If we choose we are simply part of the scheme. If the club think that the behavior of some supporters over Bournemouth tickets is against the spirit of their scheme they can do whatsoever they wish to correct the situation. Community over individual isn't very fashionable these days but it is a value worth upholding.
Remember in any case that those that bought tickets without attending disadvantaged their fellow supporters not the club.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Not really.

In the past they rewarded fans for attending low demand cup games to ensure non season ticket holders had a chance (for instance) to attend a play off semi final.

Now we are in the Premier League (first season) all away games are in huge demand (and cheap) so demand well out strips demand.

To offer loyalty points for a cheap away cup game is an own goal I'm afraid. I recall vacuum cleaners and free flights. No-one blamed the customers.

We all make mistakes, Suck it up and move on.

To blame the fans for "abusing" the loyalty system is laughable. Everyone has the right to buy something if something else is on offer.

You have made the case for selfish individualism. It's all about demand and supply and 'rights'. Society means nothing. Goodness how the world has changed. Anyway, there's a game to look forward to tomorrow and this thread is rather depressing so
I will leave it there. Can't fight the tide.

 

[Creaky]

I'm not sure why that's biting. You didn't go to the game. All you did was pay some money which means you shouldn't get points. Hopefully the club will bring in a system that only rewards attendance as it doesn't actually matter what the reason for non attendance is. Sorry if this sounds harsh but the club are seeking to reward those that actually go to matches.

If that is the case then points shouldn't be awarded as a block for buying a season ticket but on a game by game basis depending on attendance.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If that is the case then points shouldn't be awarded as a block for buying a season ticket but on a game by game basis depending on attendance.

That would increase the points for a season ticket holder. At the moment it's 20 points for each consecutive year. Unless you restricted it to one point per match.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If that is the case then points shouldn't be awarded as a block for buying a season ticket but on a game by game basis depending on attendance.

Good idea.

 

[ropey9]

It all seems rather simple to sort out, the current system with demand exceeding supply unfairly penalises the expat* fan base that have in the past attended away games more local too them.

*expat – living far enough away that having a season ticket is not realistic.

The number of expats without season tickets I should imagine will number in the few hundred at most.

The solution is thus, introduce an away point’s loyalty tier that has precedence over season ticket holders. Excluding local away games the support rarely exceeded 1000 so for most away games this season this would leave circa 2000 going through to season ticket holder where the tier can be graduated as current so that ST with the longer years of service are able to buy before newer ones. Obviously there will be a good proportion of ST with away LPs so they would not be excluded from the initial sale point, it would only be the ST (never been away) that now would like to go to Arsenal that would need to wait.


In regards POTG, too bad really there needs to be a way of tracking this and for the past number of seasons all away tickets have always been on sale from the club. In this regard, of the 10 away's I went to last season, 4 were last minute POTG. Having said that having only had LPs for 6 aways last season I have been able to get tickets for all games this season, so it shows that you didn't need to be a super away fan to ensure access to tickets this season.