[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[Thunder Bolt]

The quote that [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] provides is accurate, but doesn't reflect the whole story. Earlier in the T&Cs there's a sentence that says that LP are awarded on purchase. The T&Cs, read as a whole, are ambiguous on this point (other points too, but that's not relevant to this thread).

However, no law would be broken if no mention was made anywhere about attendance. It's a contract, so it's civil law, not criminal, and any legal remedy would be a suit for damages for breach of contract. Can't see anyone wanting to take that on though!

It's a rule of the scheme rather than a law. It's the club rules, so they can do what they like.

Who remembers the outcry at Withdean with Gold, Silver and Bronze membership, and the Away Member for Life schemes?

Away Member for the life of the scheme (that particular scheme, was the get out clause)

 

[Goldstone1976]

They don't get loyalty points for a home cup match.

Incorrect. Last season we didn't get LP for home cup matches - this was part of the justification for the 100 LP starting advantage. The club have removed all the starting LP advantage this season, and we do now get LP for home cup ties (the same number as all other people)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Incorrect. Last season we didn't get LP for home cup matches - this was part of the justification for the 100 LP starting advantage. The club have removed all the starting LP advantage this season, and we do now get LP for home cup ties (the same number as all other people)

Thank you for that clarification. I didn't realise that part had changed, but it makes sense.

 

[Goldstone1976]

It's a rule of the scheme rather than a law. It's the club rules, so they can do what they like.

Who remembers the outcry at Withdean with Gold, Silver and Bronze membership, and the Away Member for Life schemes?

Away Member for the life of the scheme (that particular scheme, was the get out clause)

Yep - they can do what they like. We agree. It is nonetheless a contract, but one that says that the club can change the rules. The end effect is the club can do what they want, when they want.

 

[drew]

Incorrect. Last season we didn't get LP for home cup matches - this was part of the justification for the 100 LP starting advantage. The club have removed all the starting LP advantage this season, and we do now get LP for home cup ties (the same number as all other people)

Are you sure. I thought you got 20 loyalty points for home cup games and 10 for away ties.

 

[portlock seagull]

...and did Jimmy really not hear the ref?

No! From the horses mouth!!!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

And that is also partly where the club have gone wrong After a certain time period they should definitely have gone on general sale and remained on general sale when returns were processed.

When it was pointed out there were returns I phoned the ticket-line on the day of the match to try and get a ticket, I was told that there were tickets available but I couldn't buy one because I didn't have enough loyalty points (as I don't have a season ticket it is impossible to get enough points). They still 'sold out' later, so

 

[adub68]

In which case - i was wrong

Not exactly. It also says earlier in the terms and conditions (in the general section) that loyalty points are awarded for purchase only and does not include the requirement to attend. the reference to attendance is in the section that relates to season ticket holders.

 

[adub68]

Incorrect. Last season we didn't get LP for home cup matches - this was part of the justification for the 100 LP starting advantage. The club have removed all the starting LP advantage this season, and we do now get LP for home cup ties (the same number as all other people)

Yes correct - removing 54 loyalty points from all 1901 members retrospectively and without consultation

 

[T soprano]

Using my own situation, I would strongly agree with this. I have 410 points having been to 800 odd games since 1995 and I've had a season ticket since 1998. It might seem a bit unfashionable to admit on here, but I have always loved the Premier League, I love Sky Sports and I love watching the big games and the top players. I even quite like the ridiculous showbiz-style razzmatazz that comes with it all. To have the Albion in there is amazing. In fact it's a lifelong dream come true, which is why I intend to go to all 38 matches this season. Even if it means going to Burnley on a Monday night or Stoke for a 3am kick-off on a Thursday. Whatever it is, I'm there for this season. But after this year? Well I think certain games could get boring very soon. I certainly don't see myself going to Manchester City or Liverpool two, three or four years in a row knowing that it's a 500-mile round trip and each time there is a good chance we could be 3-0 down by half-time. The same goes for Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs, although admittedly they are much nearer. And a lot of the others - Bournemouth, Watford, Huddersfield etc - are places I've been to many times before and would happily miss if we were in the Championship with them, so why would it be any different next year in the PL? In short, I think there are probably hundreds of people who are indulging this season and will do games they normally wouldn't, which is inflating demand to levels we've never seen before. But life is too short to spend every single weekend going to football and next season demand will be much lower whatever division we're in.

I work with a Swansea fan, he said the first season they were in the prem he could only get tickets for 4/5 games, now he says he can get tickets for every away Swansea game
Proving your post to be correct and [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION]s

 

[Goldstone1976]

Are you sure. I thought you got 20 loyalty points for home cup games and 10 for away ties.

I was responding to the post I was quoting, which was specifically about 1901ers. Last season, 1901ers had home cup ties included in the deal and, instead of earning additional LP on a game by game basis had a lump sum added at the started of the season (some unspecified proportion of the 100 LP differential between 1901ers and other STH). This season the differential has gone - as a result, 1901ers earn the same LP for home cup ties as other purchasers/attendees* (*delete as applicable) do.

The situation for 1901ers for away cup ties has always been, and remains, the same as for other purchasers.

 

[Blackadder]

Yep. Any change would presumably be intended to make the system "fairer" or more "robust". It's inevitable that in so doing, some people would have to be disadvantaged in orders for others to be advantaged - it's a zero sum game.

Having said that, I'm warming to [MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION]'s idea of giving way fewer points for low cost games, and none at all for the glamour ties. It's right and proper, imo, for tier 1 LP holders to have first dibs at Old Trafford (for example) this season, but if they want to ensure that they remain in tier 1 next season, they should have to continue going to the games that got them to tier 1 in the first place - e.g. Swansea & Stoke.

I wouldn't give any points for the low cost games (the £10 ones). If the club had done this in the first place we wouldn't be having these discussions now.

 

[Gazwag]

Maybe they should scrap the automatic STH points and credit points for attendance at home and away games on a points basis similar to the away games are done now.

They have the data to go back to the start of the Amex seasons so it would then increase the points of those who didn't have a ST and reduce those who have a ST but only attend a few matches. Is having a ST (£500) really a lot more loyal than somebody who attends 12 home matches a season on a match by match basis (£420)

 

[Goldstone1976]

Not exactly. It also says earlier in the terms and conditions (in the general section) that loyalty points are awarded for purchase only and does not include the requirement to attend. the reference to attendance is in the section that relates to season ticket holders.

Yes correct - removing 54 loyalty points from all 1901 members retrospectively and without consultation

Glad to see that someone else reads these things! They will, of course, rely both on the "titles are only there to be helpful and not part of the contract" line, and their ability to change any clause(s) they like at any time to push changes through.

I agree with your maths too; and with your implied irritation.

 

[The Gem]

Maybe they should scrap the automatic STH points and credit points for attendance at home and away games on a points basis similar to the away games are done now.

They have the data to go back to the start of the Amex seasons so it would then increase the points of those who didn't have a ST and reduce those who have a ST but only attend a few matches. Is having a ST (£500) really a lot more loyal than somebody who attends 12 home matches a season on a match by match basis (£420)

This is the most sensible post I have read to date. Brilliant idea.

It also means those who through circumstance ALONE cant buy a season ticket are not penalised.

As an example, Because of Work, I can no longer go to as many games so a season ticket would be out of the question. However, I have managed to attend Man City. will attend Newcastle and Everton at home. That is £130 for the tickets in the WL would be interested to know the cost of those games for a season ticket holder.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I wouldn't give any points for the low cost games (the £10 ones). If the club had done this in the first place we wouldn't be having these discussions now.

We're into details at this point - zero? 2/3? for low cost games. if it was zero, that'd be fine too.

 

[AWAYDAY]

I don't have a season ticket as I cannot get to that many games for a variety of reasons. This basically means that if I can attend an away game it's unlikely I'll be able to get a ticket this year. There will only be the odd exception. Last night could have been one. Except for the 600 odd who bought but didn't go.

So people were prevented from attending. It's not on.

No one was 'prevented from attending.' You didn't have a ticket so you couldn't go. I imagine that's disappointing but if you work at it you can get a ticket for an away game this season in my view.

 

[AWAYDAY]

Some good improvements to the current system proposed here - well done all.

Overall there is no perfect system and I think the club have a bit of a nerve pandering to the moaners when they brazenly 'sell' 'loyalty points' when it suits them. Think the club need to calm down a bit an those that missed out take a reality check. You missed a game. There will be more. Work at getting tickets and sometimes you'll get lucky.

Onwards and upwards!