[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[wellquickwoody]

A career in promoting tax avoidance schemes to comedians and American corporates awaits. If that doesn't appeal, how about advising construction companies how to save a few pounds by avoiding Health and Safety legislation? I'm sure you could "find a way to live with yourself".

There are another whole group of people you've missed out who may get "angered" by people who abuse the system - those whose ethics are different to shrugging and saying "human nature, eh?".

You're right, of course. There are people who will adopt precisely the same course of action as the one you promote. It is indeed the "human nature" - of some, not all.

OK let's turn it on its head. I have been supporting the club for over 40 years, sometimes with a ST and sometimes not, but a regular attended nonetheless. I now find myself on the opposite side of the planet and will rarely get to see a game. So who is the more loyal fan, me or a season ticket holder of three seasons only? I do not have the answer, but am just opening up a ridiculous debate on loyalty. People will think and do what is best for them usually.

 

[Mr Bridger]

It seems obvious to me.

Ticket office in Sheffield That will sort the wheat from the chaff

 

[pastafarian]

In 2017, a crack supporting unit was sent to Bournemouth by a football club for a game they didn't want to watch. These fans promptly escaped from the Vitality Stadium to the Bournemouth underground. Today, still wanted by Paul Barber they survive as supporters of fortune. If you have an away end to fill, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire the elite group of travelling fans."

Superheroes one and all.

"For The Few Not The Many"

 

[darkwolf666]

OK let's turn it on its head. I have been supporting the club for over 40 years, sometimes with a ST and sometimes not, but a regular attended nonetheless. I now find myself on the opposite side of the planet and will rarely get to see a game. So who is the more loyal fan, me or a season ticket holder of three seasons only? I do not have the answer, but am just opening up a ridiculous debate on loyalty. People will think and do what is best for them usually.

This a million times over...

Loyalty now has clearly become about how much you spend with the club.

Do away with loyalty points completely, give STHs first dibs on tickets (I know disadvantages distant fans), then throw tickets sales open to all. Sometimes you will win, sometimes you will lose, not a lot different to know really!

As an aside, I have a loyalty card with Sainsbury but don't expect them to save me a cauliflower when I want one

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Waterboarding?

Threaten them all with a Palace Season ticket
That will do it

 

[Bold Seagull]

OK let's turn it on its head. I have been supporting the club for over 40 years, sometimes with a ST and sometimes not, but a regular attended nonetheless. I now find myself on the opposite side of the planet and will rarely get to see a game. So who is the more loyal fan, me or a season ticket holder of three seasons only? I do not have the answer, but am just opening up a ridiculous debate on loyalty. People will think and do what is best for them usually.

If the club is to grow, encourage new fans, youths turning into adults, it has to some degree live in the present. There isn't really room for nostalgia of fans who always went but for one reason or another no longer attend regularly - it has to respect those that are with them now, and to some degree points do take into account historic support. That said there are tickets to all the home games available so far, so any home game you fancied you'd likely get a ticket for - they do seem to have got the balance right between STs sold securing income, and match day tickets available (which given the ST waiting list in excess of 6000 they could easily sell as STs). Loyalty isn't a judgement on who is a better fan, it is merely a gauge of who has attended the most games in the recent past.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

If they didn't go they shouldn't get points.

Sorry for anyone who had a genuine reason, but you have to adopt an 80/20 rule on this IMO.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Goldstone1976]

OK let's turn it on its head. I have been supporting the club for over 40 years, sometimes with a ST and sometimes not, but a regular attended nonetheless. I now find myself on the opposite side of the planet and will rarely get to see a game. So who is the more loyal fan, me or a season ticket holder of three seasons only? I do not have the answer, but am just opening up a ridiculous debate on loyalty. People will think and do what is best for them usually.

Yep. I think this debate just goes to show that it is impossible to design a system that truly reflects "loyalty", and probably next to impossible to gain agreement on a definition of loyalty in the first place.

Imo, the current system does a pretty decent job of rewarding what I'll term "Amex-era loyalty", but does nothing to reward loyalty shown earlier than that. Is that an acceptable position for the club to adopt? I suspect we'd agree that the answer is "yes" from those that benefit from where the line has been drawn (or at least are not disadvantaged by it), and "no" from those that have been disadvantaged.

Given that there is no comprehensive solution to an undefinable problem possible, I'd argue that the system (and its policing) needs to be either totally robust (which will piss off fans through inconvenience and incur significant admin cost for the club), or roughly fair, but not perfect (which will merely piss off fans). Whatever tweaks the club makes to the system, a group of fans will be pissed off.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yep. I think this debate just goes to show that it is impossible to design a system that truly reflects "loyalty", and probably next to impossible to gain agreement on a definition of loyalty in the first place.

Imo, the current system does a pretty decent job of rewarding what I'll term "Amex-era loyalty", but does nothing to reward loyalty shown earlier than that. Is that an acceptable position for the club to adopt? I suspect we'd agree that the answer is "yes" from those that benefit from where the line has been drawn (or at least not disadvantaged by it), and "no" from those that have been disadvantaged.

Given that there is no comprehensive solution to an undefinable problem possible, I'd argue that the system (and its policing) needs to be either totally robust (which will piss off fans through inconvenience and incur significant admin cost for the club), or roughly fair, but not perfect (which will merely piss off fans). Whatever tweaks the club makes to the system, a group of fans will be pissed off.

You could easily call them 'Attendance Points' and it would take out the feeling that one fan is more loyal than another.

 

[Justice]

Loyalty points are killing football, no more away games when you rock up thinking there will be a few hundred Albion and 3k turn up making it a day to remember for the right or wrong reasons. All becoming very sterile same faces at the games must start to get boring at some point.

 

[drew]

This a million times over...

Loyalty now has clearly become about how much you spend with the club.

Do away with loyalty points completely, give STHs first dibs on tickets (I know disadvantages distant fans), then throw tickets sales open to all. Sometimes you will win, sometimes you will lose, not a lot different to know really!

As an aside, I have a loyalty card with Sainsbury but don't expect them to save me a cauliflower when I want one

Do Sainsburys only have 3000 cauliflowers when they know 23,000 will be coming through the door to buy one?

 

[el punal]

Where the hell is the evidence of this happening? I didn't see a single Bournemouth ticket for sale @£XXX on twitter/here or anywhere yesterday?!


Okay, maybe not for the Bournemouth League Cup game (which is hardly the main attraction), but I suggest you go onto the Man City forum, Blue Moon, where their fans were being asked for north of £100 each for tickets in the home sections for the match at the Amex. There are also certain sites, names escape me, which specialise in ticket scalping and with reference to Albion games.

Finally, a friend of mine who is not a season ticket holder and therefore is low down on the loyalty points pecking order, has paid well in excess of face value prices for home tickets for Newcastle and Everton, and the away league fixture at Bournemouth. Now I wonder where those tickets came from eh?

 

[Goldstone1976]

Loyalty now has clearly become about how much you spend with the club.

I'd argue that the current system is demonstrably less about pure cash spent than the last one was. Last season, 1901ers got an extra 100 [old] LP than other STH. While the club never specified what the reasons for this differential were, it's the received wisdom that at least some proportion of it was due to the higher amount of cash injected into the club (the main other believed reason is the fact that 1901ers sign up for a minimum of 5 years, not one).

 

[Ron Manager]

I feel that the current system of loyalty, attendance, allocation points or whatever they may be dubbed is pretty fair and a decent reflection overall. What all of this illustrates I feel is that whatever the scenario, be it points or cheaper student tickets or Over 65 or even disabled that someone, somewhere will ALWAYS try to find an angle to either beat the system or save a few quid.

 

[drew]

The problem (I think is) that loyalty points are too simply applied.

The Bournemouth game should not have added to anyone's ability to buy a Premier League ticket. Use it as an opportunity to push people up the season ticket waiting list.

In that that sense should be general sale.

I'd personally be happy for say a hundred tickets for all Premier League away games to go on general sale to non season ticket holders. Then season ticket holders and back on general sale of any available.

.. and I say that as a season ticket holder.

Out of interest, did you get tickets for Arsenal game?

 

[BN9 BHA]

It seems obvious to me.

The spelling of Crystal Palace is incorrect on the ticket office.

 

[amexer]

Only thing gone wrong is 500 empty seats that could have been occupied by supporters that wanted to go . I had no intention of going but reading this I wish I had purchased ticket and then offered it on here. People have just played the system and only thing they have done wrong is not doing decent thing and making sure ticket ended up with somebody that wanted to go.
As I have not been to Old Trafford,or Anfield or Wembley would love to see Albion play there. Think it is wrong away side only gets 3000 tickets at these large grounds. Thought they had to give 10%

 

[AWAYDAY]

Lots of speculative nonsense there.

I have over 400 points, if I wanted to (and felt like being a bit of a dick head) I could have purchased the tickets and just chanced whether we'd be able to go or not. The decision was out of our hands re. work.

I left it in order to let those who could definitively attend take up the tickets first. Of course I was aware they'd be some twats buying them up for points, but not to the embarassing levels revealed.

People have said tickets were appearing and I checked quite a number of times but I don't have all day to keep refreshing the page. The one and only time I could buy, it was a single ticket only.

If 'try harder' means to buy without intent and/or regardless of circumstance then I think I'll pass.

Crikey - this just gets better. So you had a clear opportunity to buy tickets with enough points but because you weren't sure if you could go you didn't buy a ticket. Then when it sold out, you decided you could go and couldn't get a ticket.

So in essence you passed up the opportunity to buy tickets, then moan that others did buy a ticket and you didn't get one. Take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others. No one prevented you from going to this game. You could have bought and returned it if you were that concerned about a possible empty seat.

It amazes me the lengths people go to avoid their responsibility, avoid the feeling of dissappointment and have an excuse to moan.

 

[ditchy]

[

Maybe an option when cheap tickets are available is only award a few points, say under 5. This would hopefully reduce the abuse, and the fans that go to the game, are probably more interested in seeing the game than worrying about bumping their points up.

Better Still award no points ! .. True fans would go and you would get the true attendance . The incentive to go would be the pricing of the game , not the fact 10 points puts you in the top bracket for the next juicy away game . How many fans would then actually go .. Would be interesting to see say Huddersfield away on a Tuesday at 10 quid no points with say Arsenal away next up ,how many would go . I bet if it was 25 quid and 10 points more would go .

Iam in favour of inventive pricing and points systems , but use them as a tool and not as a blanket solution . Or why not ,not announce the points and award them retrospectively after ? . Say announce them the week after the game. Club can then say , ok Hudders on Tues night was worth say 20 pts . That way you would not get the point collectors but fans who want to go for games rewarded , and then given first dibs on the juicy games .

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I feel that the current system of loyalty, attendance, allocation points or whatever they may be dubbed is pretty fair and a decent reflection overall. What all of this illustrates I feel is that whatever the scenario, be it points or cheaper student tickets or Over 65 or even disabled that someone, somewhere will ALWAYS try to find an angle to either beat the system or save a few quid.

Agreed.

Over half of those buying tickets v Bournemouth it seems.