[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[Bozza]

I've had some correspondence with the club regarding last night's attendance at Bournemouth which, in case there is anyone unaware, saw 652 Albion fans attend when an allocation of 1,325 tickets had fully sold out.

It's covered in various threads:

- Looking forward to seeing over 1,000 fans at Bournemouth in the Carabao Cup!
- Bournemouth away tomorrow
- Bournemouth Cup game - did you go, or did you "go"?

I'm going to provide a précis of those conversations here, rather than continuing to fragment the discussion across several threads. Please note the actual words are my own:

The club cannot force people to attend matches when they have bought a ticket, particularly as there will always be legitimate reasons for “no shows”. However, the club are shocked at what appears to be widespread abuse of the loyalty point system last night at Bournemouth. This is particularly disappointing given the club worked hard to keep ticket prices down, yet these lower ticket prices seem to have instigated the abuse.

The club are currently reviewing data supplied to them by Bournemouth to gain a better understanding of the abuse and will be making some changes to the current system and to the governing terms and conditions. There is a wide variety of entry systems deployed by clubs which means it may not always be possible to do the same for all games, but requests will be made which is likely to be a costly exercise for the club. The club was aware there was a risk of abuse, but hoped that most fans would operate within the spirit of the scheme.

Possible options specific to last night include:

- doing nothing (not really considered an option)
- disqualifying the loyalty points from those supporters who didn’t attend last night’s game (however would disadvantage those fans who had a genuine reason for not attending), -
- disqualifying the loyalty points from all tickets sold for last might’s game (this would disadvantage those that did attend but would protecting the spirit of the system as far as possible)
- increasing the loyalty points awarded for those fans that did attend (partially neutralising the benefit gained by those that abused the system. However this would mean further impacting on those that were unable to buy tickets in the first place).

In the longer term, options include:

- changing to terms and conditions regarding the award and revocation of loyalty points
- considering mandatory ticket collections at venues close to the stadium we are visiting to minimise any further abuse of the system, and any associated mis-use of away match tickets.
- deploying club staff and scanners pre-away turnstiles to ensure that only those tickets used accrue the loyalty points promised or are being used by the supporters to whom they have been issued.

The club expect to make a statement on how they intend to move forward in the next day or so.

 

[Lush]

Those options imply that the club do know whether fans attend or not.

 

[Greavsey]

Summarised - "well if you will behave like school children, we'll treat you as such!"

I agree it's poor that people abused the system last night, but, the club can't retrospectively change the T&Cs of the loyalty. They can for games in the future, but not when people bought tickets in good faith, whatever their reason to do so.

 

[Bozza]

Those options imply that the club do know whether fans attend or not.

I don't believe they've looked into it until now.

 

[Tooting Gull]

This is just thinking aloud rather than making any demands - but logically, what is the rationale behind awarding extra 'loyalty' points for a small allocation that could have sold out many times over? Shouldn't you just be pleased to have got a ticket? And isn't awarding additional loyalty points in these circumstances just a) inviting abuse, and b) perpetuating some kind of monopoly going forward?

 

[Da Man Clay]

The genuine lack of understanding of particularly obvious things on occasions but the club is quite unsettling. Surely most people saw this coming?

 

[AmexRuislip]

I've had some correspondence with the club regarding last night's attendance at Bournemouth which, in case there is anyone unaware, saw 652 Albion fans attend when an allocation of 1,325 tickets had fully sold out.

It's covered in various threads:

- Looking forward to seeing over 1,000 fans at Bournemouth in the Carabao Cup!
- Bournemouth away tomorrow
- Bournemouth Cup game - did you go, or did you "go"?

I'm going to provide a précis of those conversations here, rather than continuing to fragment the discussion across several threads. Please note the actual words are my own:

The club cannot force people to attend matches when they have bought a ticket, particularly as there will always be legitimate reasons for “no shows”. However, the club are shocked at what appears to be widespread abuse of the loyalty point system last night at Bournemouth. This is particularly disappointing given the club worked hard to keep ticket prices down, yet these lower ticket prices seem to have instigated the abuse.

The club are currently reviewing data supplied to them by Bournemouth to gain a better understanding of the abuse and will be making some changes to the current system and to the governing terms and conditions. There is a wide variety of entry systems deployed by clubs which means it may not always be possible to do the same for all games, but requests will be made which is likely to be a costly exercise for the club. The club was aware there was a risk of abuse, but hoped that most fans would operate within the spirit of the scheme.

Possible options specific to last night include:

- doing nothing (not really considered an option)
- disqualifying the loyalty points from those supporters who didn’t attend last night’s game (however would disadvantage those fans who had a genuine reason for not attending), -
- disqualifying the loyalty points from all tickets sold for last might’s game (this would disadvantage those that did attend but would protecting the spirit of the system as far as possible)
- increasing the loyalty points awarded for those fans that did attend (partially neutralising the benefit gained by those that abused the system. However this would mean further impacting on those that were unable to buy tickets in the first place).

In the longer term, options include:

- changing to terms and conditions regarding the award and revocation of loyalty points
- considering mandatory ticket collections at venues close to the stadium we are visiting to minimise any further abuse of the system, and any associated mis-use of away match tickets.
- deploying club staff and scanners pre-away turnstiles to ensure that only those tickets used accrue the loyalty points promised or are being used by the supporters to whom they have been issued.

The club expect to make a statement on how they intend to move forward in the next day or so.

Thanks [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] this is good to know.

 

[Sheebo]

I think the best option is to hunt down the no-shows and put their loyalty points to 0 - sure there'll be the odd legit excuse, but they can take that up with the club themselves. Would be bloody hilarious imo!

PS - I don't do many/any aways myself anymore & don't even know how many points I have without looking so couldn't really give a toss about personal gain - just think it would teach the selfish *******s a lesson

 

[Nixonator]

Illness or unforseen events rendering me unable to attend have not and would not make me feel like I deserved the points regardless, just for purchasing the ticket with intent to go.

Therefore I don't think it is harsh at all to remove the points for non-attendance, or in the future to not allocate them in the first place without a scan/pickup.

 

[Prettyboyshaw]

Great had a ticket but used a friends who had a spare rather than going back home to get it before traveled

If points are taken away especially after being subjected to that last night I will not be a happy boy.

 

[SAC]

- deploying club staff and scanners pre-away turnstiles to ensure that only those tickets used accrue the loyalty points promised or are being used by the supporters to whom they have been issued.

This is the only one that really works, presumably just at the few games where this is likely/possible to happen.

They could change the terms for future away matches with the hope that the threat that no shows don't get points even if it is impossible to do this for all matches.

It isn't likely to happen again until the 3rd round of the FA Cup?

 

[Gwylan]

The club expect to make a statement on how they intend to move forward in the next day or so.

Are they going to cut their goolies off?

[yt]p6aQC-1-GF4[/yt]

 

[kingcole]

I think the best option is to hunt down the no-shows and put their loyalty points to 0 - sure there'll be the odd legit excuse, but they can take that up with the club themselves. Would be bloody hilarious imo!

PS - I don't do many/any aways myself anymore & don't even know how many points I have without looking so couldn't really give a toss about personal gain - just think it would teach the selfish *******s a lesson

Although those who abused the system yesterday really do have a lot to answer for, especially as many others were prevented from going, such a suggestion cannot really be applied retrospectively as the rules at the time didn't say anything about having to attend.

I think the threat of having your points zeroed in the future would be enough of a deterrent though.

 

[Tooting Gull]

For people who are lucky enough to get tickets in the away allocation for eg Arsenal and Spurs, isn't it enough that you got one? Others would kill for tickets. Why should you in addition get more loyalty points, further reinforcing your privileged position in the future, for such an in-demand game? I can understand if you were one of the 3,000, you'd want that status quo to remain. But that doesn't mean it's fair or right.

 

[kingcole]

This is the only one that really works, presumably just at the few games where this is likely/possible to happen.

They could change the terms for future away matches with the hope that the threat that no shows don't get points even if it is impossible to do this for all matches.

It isn't likely to happen again until the 3rd round of the FA Cup?

Or Huddersfield away as was the case for some last year (£10 adults, £1 kids I seem to remember)

I really can't see another situation this year though where, even if the system is abused, other fans will be prevented from going. It's the genuine fans that missed out yesterday that's the real issue here IMO. Not only did they miss out, the team missed out on some much needed support.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Summarised - "well if you will behave like school children, we'll treat you as such!"

I agree it's poor that people abused the system last night, but, the club can't retrospectively change the T&Cs of the loyalty. They can for games in the future, but not when people bought tickets in good faith, whatever their reason to do so.

The current T&Cs have a sentence, contradicted earlier in the same document (sigh), that says that LP are awarded after tickets have been purchased and the fan have attended the game. The earlier sentence says only that the LP are awarded after the ticket has been purchased.

 

[Jakeg]

For some reason my loyalty points have been taken off from the game yesterday, went from 220 this morning to 210 now, I did go to the game. Has this happened to anyone else?

 

[bhafc4eva]

Out of the longer term options. Collecting from a venue near the ground. This is the craziest one I have heard. Pay staff to facilitate, queues will be horrendous, are away teams likely to support us with this?

All a bit of a knee jerk reaction. If people want a ticket for any away game, if they have the desire, it can be done. Even Watford away there was people selling tickets outside the ground for a little over face value.

 

[Easy 10]

Here's an idea, which might be so simple its stupid.

Why not have a few stewards with boxes stand outside the exits after the game, and collect up all the used ticket stubs ? Just walk past and chuck your used ticket stub in the box. The used stubs then get shipped back to BHAFC HQ, where some minions go through them and update the loyalty points accordingly.

Do-able ?

 

[The Large One]

Summarised - "well if you will behave like school children, we'll treat you as such!"

I agree it's poor that people abused the system last night, but, the club can't retrospectively change the T&Cs of the loyalty. They can for games in the future, but not when people bought tickets in good faith, whatever their reason to do so.

They can't change it retrospectively, and no-one is expecting them to do so.

But to penalise those bought a ticket with no intention of going is within the bounds of acceptability. Even if a no-show is for a 'legitimate' reason, I still feel it's fair enough to not credit them with those loyalty points. It's too bad, but if you can't go, you can't go.

There are many examples of non-refundable ticket purchases. If you can't get your train for which you've bought a pre-booked ticket for reasons which are your own, you can't expect a refund.