[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[portlock seagull]

Great post. It has been clear for two seasons, arguably four out of five seasons, that we would make the Prem soon. If you did not up your away attendance as Soistes has done then more fool you, and you really have no right to moan. The 'shop' may be closed now but the doors were thrown open with comely lasses welcoming you in for the last five years. You had your chance and did not take it.

...accept we know the points system is easily abused and plenty of 'LOYAL' fans - who need to be told who Tony Bloom is - will be attending London away games at the expense of those who have lived and breathed the Albion for decades...

 

[Moshe Gariani]

It's so obvious this is the answer. Just make Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United, Man City, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton zero points. Why should anyone be rewarded for going to the games we are all desperate to do? And I say that as someone with 400+ points who will get a ticket for them all.

Give 5 points for the likes of Palace, Southampton, West Ham, Bournemouth and Watford. Then give 10 points for the long distance/non-glamour games at Swansea, Newcastle, Burnley, Huddersfield, West Brom, Stoke and Leicester. You then have a system where the only way to move forwards in the queue for the glamorous games is to go to the dull ones.

If I was Barber I would freeze all points with immediate effect and change the system along the lines you suggest.

I would go further though and include Palace and Southampton in the zero category.

I would then give 15 points per game to anyone who does any of the 6 remaining aways that actually indicate a likelihood of "loyalty".

The most loyal away fans (those currently with the most points) would largely retain that status but getting tickets for away games would not be a closed shop to the next generation of fans.

Wouldn't make much difference to anything this year, and is all but irrelevant if we go down, but we might as well have a system that would work long term in the Premier League.

 

[amexee]

Points for sale not right, ahem!

It is my view that the club has been actively selling points (loyalty) ever since the Amex opened.

Until this season if you purchased a 1901 ticket you got an extra 50 points. I don't see 1901 holders as more loyal than other season ticket holders, they just spent more.

1901 holders get points for all home cup games whether they attend or not. Once again points purchased and not earned through loyalty.

600 or so ticket holding people did not attend Bournemouth, however the club has not given the figure for the Barnet game. I would hazard a guess that the number was higher.

It would seem that the club has never had a problem with creating revenue from the sale of points, it is just now that they are facing a PR problem that they are complaining about a system they created, and have allowed to function for years.

All the furore surrounding the Bournemouth match has lead them to react. I can understand peoples disappointment at not getting points, or seeing other people get them. However I feel the actual number of people who are disappointed at not getting tickets to go to Bournemouth is a lot lower than the number of grumblers.

 

[portlock seagull]

I don't think you meant to but that came across as someone quite bitter.

Not sure why when, as I said, you just got to suck it up and find alternatives. Mine is to enjoy the day with a good friend who supports the other team and sit with them / have a nice day out. I can't get away tickets, I'd practically take on Tim Carder as to my knowledge and affection for the club, did my bit in the war years, been a STH for years despite not living in Sussex blah blah blah but I know the system isn't perfect (albeit could be fairer / perfect is subjective anyway!) so not going to waste time being number 85,324 in the queue with 2.5k tickets only available. Instead a couple of calls to old friends, colleagues etc and 9 times out 10 I can get a ticket for every away game we play and see an old friend too. Sometimes not even had to pay and once even got hospitality thrown in for free / met Jimmy Case and was able to ask "did you really not hear that Ref?!!"

 

[brightn'ove]

When we get relegated there will be tonnes of away games you could go to, and subsequently pick up the loyalty points you need.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Working for me so far

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[drew]

That works if everyone had started on zero points this season, but they didn't.

This means that those behind the curve, are doing their best to catch up.

Problem is that if you are having a reward/loyalty scheme then you can't all start at zero at the start of the season as there is no reward for your previous loyalty over the last few years. People seem to forget the the cause of the problem is the limited supply of tickets. Whatever the scheme the club have to aim to sell in tranches and common sense says that the first tranche should be limited to the top 3000 fans or whatever the ticket allocation is. TCB idea isn't bad as the top tier will still get first dibs as it stands. However they will still have to go to the other less glamour games to stay in the top. If they don't then the tickets will filter down the tiers until sold out and those in the lower tiers get the chance to start to catch up.

Furthermore, if you haven't had a season ticket since the Amex opened but over the last 2 or 3 years then each year you renew your points will get boosted. If, like many, you've had a season since day one, then, as it appears on the info, you get a maximum of 8 years allowance (as at the end of this season). It will take time but the gap will close.

 

[wolfie]

If they are going to penalise those who bought tickets for Bournemouth and didn't show up, what about those ST holders who regularly miss home games or leave 10 or more minutes early ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I thought that number did get revealed. The official attendance was over 11,000 but a Twitter account (I can't remember which - was it Barnet? Or maybe the police?) gave the number of bums on seats as just over 8,000. So we already know 3,000 people cheated the system that night.

The difference with the Barnet game, was that nobody was deprived of a ticket, that wanted one.

Ps, couldn't this have been posted on the Loyalty point gate thread?

 

[jaghebby]

Just read the clubs statement and to be honest its a bit over the top. In reality I think this was a one off situation because a) the tickets were cheap and b) the points allocation was high. The statement says "The loyalty point system is, by definition, about rewarding loyalty of those supporters who travel and support the team up and down the country." but its also about rewarding those supporters who commit to the club through having a season ticket! It goes onto say "Furthermore, this practice not only prevents supporters who wish to go and support the team from attending the match in question, but it also stops those same fans from gaining valuable and deserved loyalty points to allow them to go future matches." But I just wonder how many of those people complaining really would have gone? They say "This practice reached unacceptable levels at last night's match" that suggest it has happened before! Now I was at the Leicester and Watford matches and saw no evidence of that at all! The club say its unacceptable but isn't it just as unacceptable to those of us that went that they played a severely weakened team? Finally, the season is a marathon and I would be very displeased if major changes were made to the loyalty scheme on the back of one incident! Whilst we are in the Premier League demand will always outstrip supply and its just a fact of life that the vocal and vociferous minority need to accept.

 

[Bozza]

Everybody did start on zero six years ago when we moved to The Amex (apart from the Withdean STHs who got 250 extra points that would now be worth almost nothing). So the current system is fair in terms of where everybody stands, as it is a reflection of support over the last six years. People who are 'behind the curve' are there for a reason and the club needs to eliminate these shortcuts to more points by a) allocating points more sensibly in future games and b) ensuring you have to attend to get the points.

Looking to the future, the fair way for those 'behind the curve' to make up ground is to go to some of the unattractive matches that many of us have been doing for years. But that task is impossible if those already in the top two tiers are given more points for going to Arsenal, West Ham, Man United, all of whom we play in the next two months. I'll go to all three but I don't think these are a sign of my loyalty.

At least with the suggestion I just made, the Arsenal, West Ham and Man United tickets will still go to the people who deserve them (i.e. those with the best support over the last six years), but they won't move further ahead as a result of attending. Moving up or down the queue for future big games would come down to whether you can be bothered to go to Newcastle, Swansea, Burnley etc.

I'm not sure allocating 0 points, 5 points or 5m points to the "glamour" games would make much difference.

As you say, those currently at the top of the pile will stay there regardless as it looks as though something like 2500 - 2700 of tickets for the big games are selling out in tier 1. If those people keep going, and they will, then they will remain in that first tier. The only real movement possible is the lower end of the 1st tier and the upper end of the 2nd tier, with those in the latter trying to scrape into the former.

 

[Bozza]

TCB idea isn't bad as the top tier will still get first dibs as it stands. However they will still have to go to the other less glamour games to stay in the top. If they don't then the tickets will filter down the tiers until sold out and those in the lower tiers get the chance to start to catch up.

They will go to less glamorous games - it's largely how they got to be in the top tier in the first place.

 

[Sheebo]

I thought that number did get revealed. The official attendance was over 11,000 but a Twitter account (I can't remember which - was it Barnet? Or maybe the police?) gave the number of bums on seats as just over 8,000. So we already know 3,000 people cheated the system that night.

Don't think they did. I think it was more the 1901 no shows that were included in that figure that made the difference as they had 'free tickets'? I'd imagine there were quite a few cheaters too though...

FWIW I agree with your suggestion re the way to do the points system - and I rarely go away either but would like to see those that travel to Swansea and Burnley rewarded of course.

 

[Ernest]

Have 2 dates for sale , first for loyalty points but a lot lower than a second for everyone else

 

[sully]

I remember back in the day when the crowd booed when it was announced that season ticket holders would get priority for the cup final replay tickets.

I think the current system is reasonably fair, but stacked too high in favour of those who can afford a season ticket and have done for many years and against those who may have had a period of relative poverty and maybe missed a season or two of having a season ticket, but still went to as many games as possible.

There must be some (probably not many) regular away supporters from years around the lower leagues, who have never had a season ticket and therefore can no longer go to the vast majority of away games.

It's a difficult one to resolve fully, as we all think our own circumstances should be factored in, but no system will seem fair to all.

Personally, I've just concluded that I'll feed off whatever scraps come my way this year and hope that it's enough to eventually bump me up a level so that I have half a chance of the more attractive games.

 

[Birdie Boy]

Loyalty needs to be rewarded but big fans base and certain situations should be considered.

Same scheme but just hold back 1,2,3,4 or 5% for general/member sale .

Otherwise closed shop until we go down again.

Shame a football man can't choose the scheme

I know Tony didn't play football, coach or manage a team but I think it is fair to say he is a football man.

Plus, it was he who created and/or approved the scheme which is good enough for me.

If you have a better one that doesn't reward people that couldn't be arsed the last few years, then let us know.

Btw, I have done 5-10 away games per season over the last 6 years but due to circumstances last year I only did 4. I have been to Leicester and Watford this season but still couldn't get Arsenal or West Ham. Do you hear me moaning? No, I thought not.

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[Titanic]

I'm not sure allocating 0 points, 5 points or 5m points to the "glamour" games would make much difference.

As you say, those currently at the top of the pile will stay there regardless as it looks as though something like 2500 - 2700 of tickets for the big games are selling out in tier 1. If those people keep going, and they will, then they will remain in that first tier. The only real movement possible is the lower end of the 1st tier and the upper end of the 2nd tier, with those in the latter trying to scrape into the former.

Zero points for the 'glamour' games and 15 points for the less desirable away trips gives someone the chance to catch up 100 points a season if they really are committed and loyal enough. If fans with lots of points (from being a STH and doing some easy aways) don't go to these less glamourous away games - then they will gradually drop back into the pack. Seems like a pretty fair solution. And it is basically the system that we have in place. What the club got wrong was offering too many points for a cheap ticket - and that is also easily fixed.

 

[Mr Bridger]

It's so obvious this is the answer. Just make Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United, Man City, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton zero points. Why should anyone be rewarded for going to the games we are all desperate to do? And I say that as someone with 400+ points who will get a ticket for them all.

Give 5 points for the likes of Palace, Southampton, West Ham, Bournemouth and Watford. Then give 10 points for the long distance/non-glamour games at Swansea, Newcastle, Burnley, Huddersfield, West Brom, Stoke and Leicester. You then have a system where the only way to move forwards in the queue for the glamorous games is to go to the dull ones.

Extra bonus points as well for remote fans who have seasons tickets and have to travel more to home games? (Cough, 6 hour return journey for me)