Lower league Pompey

[Hillian1]

I guess many feel sympathy for many of the fans, but not the 'club' as a whole.

This is how I feel about the whole thing. I know how much it hurt thinking we were going out of business but this is different, the club has not helped itself even when given the chance.

Let it die.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Its hard to feel sympathy, for people who as yet have not actually endured ANY suffering. What are we supposed to feel sympathy FOR?

Possible future suffering?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Possible future suffering?

Well maybe IF the worst happens, I'll feel bad for them. I don't know that I would, even then, though.

I honestly think starting again with a phoenix club, down the pyramid, might be the best possible outcome for them. It will be an exciting adventure for the true Pompey fans, rid of the stench and leeches of the old discredited PFC.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Two threads today on which to plot and record the imminent demise of the once great (best supporters in the land) Portsmouth football club, and a very valid point indeed from Papa Lazarou.

Football League regulations require that a club exiting administration "must do so via a valid CVA".

My current reading of the stuation is that the current CVA, agreed a year ago, doesn't fail until the club formally default on payments under it.
This event will occur in April when the first scheduled payments under that CVA are due to be made. At that point I am guessing that the FL could unilaterally decide that the basic requirement (exiting admin via a valid CVA) has failed and they could - under their existing rules - impose a further penalty/points deduction. This would effectively seal relegation.

However, they might be conscious that Portsmouth would challenge such a decision and the challenge could drag on into next season. If this is a concern they might elect to "wait and see", possibly with the thought that Portsmouth are probably going down anyway and a post-season deduction of points could apply to next season as a more fitting penalty and could be agreed by the annual meeting of the league's club chairmen (making a challenge more difficult).

Failing the League acting in April when the old CVA fails there is the possibility that they could be petitioned by football creditors but this seems unlikely as the summer chairmens' annual meeting provides an adequate and timely opportunity.

Failing the demise of the old CVA there is also the possibility that the agreement of a new CVA might be the trigger for potential sanctions as this would be a clearly defined point where the old agreement could have been said to have failed.

There is a third "opportunity" for the league to act and that is if the club fail to agree a new CVA before the start of next season. Based on past precedent the League would, in those circumstances, threaten to withold their "Golden Share" in PFC, the (FL controlled) factor which effectively allows a club to compete in the league. The golden share would only be released if the club agree to sanctions on a "no appeal" basis. This is obviously a useful route for the FL to follow as, should the club decline an agreement, they will simply not be permitted to compete in the League and would have no legal redress.

Sorry if it is all a bit complicated and I haven't explained very well but whichever way it now goes Portsmouth will almost certainly suffer more than one points deduction. It is only the timing that varies but my guess is something like this...................................

Now - enter admin and minus 10 points
April - default on CVA
May - survive the season and get relegated
July - 15 to 20 points deduction at start of next season in League 1 for the original default
or
July - if they do not have a new buyer and cannot agree a CVA, a further 15 points deduction (total 30/35)
or
July - if they remain insolvent - closure and reforming in the Conference South



Of the July options I would think the first and last the most likely

No prospective buyer would be interested in a League 1 club starting the season on minus 30 as they would need a squad capable of promotion just to escape relegation to League 2. Would the Conference be prepared to accept a reformed team at this level ?

 

[CP 0 3 BHA]

How can it possibly be morally or legally right for the club's parachute payments to go to the sleaze-bag former owner? The PL should withhold payment and let the **** try to argue his case in court.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

How can it possibly be morally or legally right for the club's parachute payments to go to the sleaze-bag former owner? .

Because they borrowed the money from him to stay afloat, under that agreement?

 

[Gwylan]

Its hard to feel sympathy, for people who as yet have not actually endured ANY suffering. What are we supposed to feel sympathy FOR?

Living in Portsmouth?

 

[severnside gull]

How can it possibly be morally or legally right for the club's parachute payments to go to the sleaze-bag former owner? The PL should withhold payment and let the **** try to argue his case in court.

a legally binding agreement is just that and the PL (in this case) are not - as far as I can see - in any position to challenge it*.

The irony that such a legally binding agreement made by one (oft called) crook, Mr Chanrai, to pay another crook, Gaydamark, should be the means by which a club which has been flouting every possible rule in order to gain advantage over its competitors for at least the last 5 years, is finally bought to account ................................... some things money cannot buy. Priceless.


*PFC's administrator says he will challenge the legitimacy of the agreement but that would take much longer than he has got and he knows it. He is simply using the situation as a bargaining tool to get other funds (any funds) released

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Living in Portsmouth?

Fair comment, obviously, but no - they wouldn't WANT your sympathy for that. All the island dwelling inbreds love the place.

 

[CP 0 3 BHA]

a legally binding agreement is just that and the PL (in this case) are not - as far as I can see - in any position to challenge it*.

The irony that such a legally binding agreement made by one (oft called) crook, Mr Chanrai, to pay another crook, Gaydamark, should be the means by which a club which has been flouting every possible rule in order to gain advantage over its competitors for at least the last 5 years, is finally bought to account ................................... some things money cannot buy. Priceless.


*PFC's administrator says he will challenge the legitimacy of the agreement but that would take much longer than he has got and he knows it. He is simply using the situation as a bargaining tool to get other funds (any funds) released

If this was linked to payments under the previous CVA which the club are about to default on, the effect of this is that he (who must be at least partly culprable for the sorry mess) is being prefered compared to the other creditors. Morally, but I suspect not legally, there should be an argument that these funds are put back into play for all creditors under the arrangement.

 

[severnside gull]

If this was linked to payments under the previous CVA which the club are about to default on, the effect of this is that he (who must be at least partly culprable for the sorry mess) is being prefered compared to the other creditors. Morally, but I suspect not legally, there should be an argument that these funds are put back into play for all creditors under the arrangement.

HMRC agree with you 100% (as do I FWIW) so you are in very good company but the football league have a "preferred creditor" rule which prioritises football debts and aims to keep the money "within the (football) family". The money owed to Gaydamark as the former owner is classified as a football debt.

Not pretty perhaps but the irony is a thing of delicious form and no less substance.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Birch also admitted that he is at a loss as to how Portsmouth have got themselves into such a dire situation. "The club is in a default position. It is left with a foot-print around the stadium that they don't own, they don't own the training ground and they don't own the academy. It leaves you asking 'where has it all gone?', and I can't answer that question."

The last people that are ever asked questions by administrators, officials, fans, anyone really, are journalists who have been paid to find things out about football clubs (although, to be fair, Tony Adams did admit to me last summer that he should have listened to some of us when we tried to warn him about what sort of club he was managing, instead of telling us that he'd had guarantees from the owner). If he wants to give me a call, I can tell him that a lot of it was moved into bank accounts in the Virgin Islands - a process that was going in even as the previous administrator was coming in through the doors - and I can tell him who did it. But just as managers tell us our opinions don't matter because we've 'never played the game' no doubt he'd refuse to listen on the grounds that I've never been an administrator.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Birch also admitted that he is at a loss as to how Portsmouth have got themselves into such a dire situation. "The club is in a default position. It is left with a foot-print around the stadium that they don't own, they don't own the training ground and they don't own the academy. It leaves you asking 'where has it all gone?', and I can't answer that question."

The last people that are ever asked questions by administrators, officials, fans, anyone really, are journalists who have been paid to find things out about football clubs (although, to be fair, Tony Adams did admit to me last summer that he should have listened to some of us when we tried to warn him about what sort of club he was managing, instead of telling us that he'd had guarantees from the owner). If he wants to give me a call, I can tell him that a lot of it was moved into bank accounts in the Virgin Islands - a process that was going in even as the previous administrator was coming in through the doors - and I can tell him who did it. But just as managers tell us our opinions don't matter because we've 'never played the game' no doubt he'd refuse to listen on the grounds that I've never been an administrator.

Just tell your editor to stop being a f***ing PUSSY, and print the lot.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Birch also admitted that he is at a loss as to how Portsmouth have got themselves into such a dire situation. "The club is in a default position. It is left with a foot-print around the stadium that they don't own, they don't own the training ground and they don't own the academy. It leaves you asking 'where has it all gone?', and I can't answer that question."

I hope it is all going to be in the book.

 

[itszamora]

Just tell your editor to stop being a f***ing PUSSY, and print the lot.

What he said.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the 'club' as a whole.

What does the club actually consist of though? It has been asset stripped, most of the land they owned has gone, the academy has gone, the training facility has gone. There's f*** all left except for a whopping debt.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Just tell your editor to stop being a f***ing PUSSY, and print the lot.

The paper I was working for at that time was very nervous about libel after Martin Samuel cost them a great deal when he wrote that Dave Jones had been shabbily treated by Rupert Lowe - fair comment, you'd think, but not according to the jury. And now that Portsmouth aren't in the Premier League i don't think they care any more. And the person who did it isn't a big or interesting name like Storrie or Redknapp. He was a lawyer working for, well, not the last owner, or the one before that, but the one before that .... It's a convoluted story, and interesting mainly to those of us who despise Portsmouth. Most people, I suspect, couldn't give a f*ck.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The paper I was working for at that time was very nervous about libel after Martin Samuel cost them a great deal when he wrote that Dave Jones had been shabbily treated by Rupert Lowe - fair comment, you'd think, but not according to the jury. And now that Portsmouth aren't in the Premier League i don't think they care any more. And the person who did it isn't a big or interesting name like Storrie or Redknapp. He was a lawyer working for, well, not the last owner, or the one before that, but the one before that .... It's a convoluted story, and interesting mainly to those of us who despise Portsmouth. Most people, I suspect, couldn't give a f*ck.

Okay, so you cannot print it. Leak it then. It will be of interest for sure.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

What does the club actually consist of though? It has been asset stripped, most of the land they owned has gone, the academy has gone, the training facility has gone. There's f*** all left except for a whopping debt.

They never owned a training facility. They rent a place in Eastleigh, in Saints territory. In fact, one bloke who used to work as security there was a Saints fan who ran a memorabilia shop in Northam Road. he was an endless source of information ....

 

[Ernest]

Looks like Portsmouth could finally be the club that goes to the wall, got absolutely nothing to offer any prospective owner and the best case scenario is an AFC Pompey starting off wherever. Wimbledon and Aldershot got back into the league and with their gates at that level they should have a financial advantage........