Lots of media talk backed by Institute Fiscal Studies that a 20% vat is coming

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I posted this on April 14th , "Many people forget that when the Tories came to power in 1979 , they raised VAT from 8% and 12% (two bands) to 15%. If they win in May expect VAT to increase from 17½% to 20% with food no longer zero rated and gas & electricity uprated from 5% to 20%."

There were 2 replies , a sensible one from Simster and another saying I was speculating. The EU wants all member countries to impose a MINIMUM level of VAT at 20% with no exemptions or reduced tariffs.

 

[The Oldman]

I posted this on April 14th , "Many people forget that when the Tories came to power in 1979 , they raised VAT from 8% and 12% (two bands) to 15%. If they win in May expect VAT to increase from 17½% to 20% with food no longer zero rated and gas & electricity uprated from 5% to 20%."

There were 2 replies , a sensible one from Simster and another saying I was speculating. The EU wants all member countries to impose a MINIMUM level of VAT at 20% with no exemptions or reduced tariffs.

Taxes would have to be raised whoever won the election . Personally I prefer a VAT rise rather than income tax. If I cannot afford to buy something because of higher VAT then I have a choice. Income tax rise - no choice.
We are in for a tough time but the sooner the nation starts living within its means the better. Trade figures today show that we are not paying our way and have been in deficit for over 10 years. Politicians of all parties should be ashamed that they have let this situation arise.

 

[London Calling]

VAT no choice, for the low income, pensioners, people unable to work, kids, its a regressive tax and hits them hard.

IncomeTax is at least a fairer tax.

Ultimately atax has to be collcted, the tories prefer VAT, Labour and generally the libs prefer a wealth distributing tax.

My issue here is blatant deceit.
We just had an election, any new tax within a year , should have been in the manisfesto, cos ther tories certainly had room to explain tax cuts and the air time to slag off NI rise.

 

[dougdeep]

Taxes would have to be raised whoever won the election . Personally I prefer a VAT rise rather than income tax. If I cannot afford to buy something because of higher VAT then I have a choice. Income tax rise - no choice.
We are in for a tough time but the sooner the nation starts living within its means the better. Trade figures today show that we are not paying our way and have been in deficit for over 10 years. Politicians of all parties should be ashamed that they have let this situation arise.

Well said sir. It's a necessary evil.

 

[entente cordiale]

So VAT goes up - we spend less - fewer jobs. Public expenditure cuts - fewer jobs (including so called private business reliant on outsourced gov't spending). Now blame the jobless for having no jobs and Labour for an international crisis caused by dishonest and incompetent bankers and investment managers. Economics masterclass from our Tory friends and their new found chums...

 

[SI 4 BHA]

VAT no choice, for the low income, pensioners, people unable to work, kids, its a regressive tax and hits them hard.

IncomeTax is at least a fairer tax.

Ultimately atax has to be collcted, the tories prefer VAT, Labour and generally the libs prefer a wealth distributing tax.

My issue here is blatant deceit.
We just had an election, any new tax within a year , should have been in the manisfesto, cos ther tories certainly had room to explain tax cuts and the air time to slag off NI rise.

No VAT on most foods or childrens clothes or books, so whats the problem? Most pensioners I know have a far better standard of living than me! You are living in the past, the state pension is just a useful addition to the final salary pensions most retired now receive. This may change in the future as final salary schemes are closed, but for now, pensioners are generally doing ok. It's just the poor middle aged sods like me and my friends who are still 15 years from retirement who are paying for everything! VAT is the best way of raising money for the treasury as it really does give everyone the chance to pay it or not!

 

[timbha]

No VAT on most foods or childrens clothes or books, so whats the problem? Most pensioners I know have a far better standard of living than me! You are living in the past, the state pension is just a useful addition to the final salary pensions most retired now receive. This may change in the future as final salary schemes are closed, but for now, pensioners are generally doing ok. It's just the poor middle aged sods like me and my friends who are still 15 years from retirement who are paying for everything! VAT is the best way of raising money for the treasury as it really does give everyone the chance to pay it or not!

completely agree. Unfortunately higher VAT will not stimulate the economy and result is an increase in the black, non VAT/Income Tax paying economy. Expect to see higher taxes on the strong wines, spirits and beers and cigarettes, and long may it last - it's a shame HMRC can't put 25% VAT on illegal drugs.

 

[bobbab5]

Absolutely spot on.
My God,I never cease to be amazed by the sheer ignorance displayed on this board by some of our fellow Seagull Supporters!I am sure some of them blame the Tories when they wet the bed or poo their pants!

Oh, I didn't realise that as BHA supporters we had to be Tories.

 

[mistahclarke]

And whilst here - I couldn't help noticing that the coalition document referred to 'Labour's financial crisis' I assume that's different from the global one everybody else is suffering from? Or does Barack Obama blame Gordon Brown for theirs as well?

couldn't agree more

 

[Greyrun]

couldn't agree more

 

[London Calling]

No VAT on most foods or childrens clothes or books, so whats the problem? Most pensioners I know have a far better standard of living than me! You are living in the past, the state pension is just a useful addition to the final salary pensions most retired now receive. This may change in the future as final salary schemes are closed, but for now, pensioners are generally doing ok. It's just the poor middle aged sods like me and my friends who are still 15 years from retirement who are paying for everything! VAT is the best way of raising money for the treasury as it really does give everyone the chance to pay it or not!

Problem I surpose of people living in a relatively wealthy area such as Brighton, with no reality of the deprivation, unemployment and low income of people in the large inner cities, Wales, North and midlands.

My borough, 60% of households have benefits. It has the highest unemploymnet rate in the UK.

So VAT rises hit harder than a rise in NI or Income Tax.

Pensioners round here certainly aren't rich, and if they have a private pension then great.

You work, you pay that's the fair way of distributing money.

The number of punters on hee who have critisced Labour for the widening gaps in Income - which then support VAT tax increase over Income Tax, which will then perpetuate the gap in earnings!!!

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Which is why for essentials such as food, kids clothes etc there is no VAT - everyone has a choice as to whether to buy pretty much everything else.

But the facts are as everyone knows that VAT will have gone up to 20% under any government - no one ruled it out pre-election which is why it wasnt really talked about because there was no difference between the parties.

Taxes have to go up and spending go down because of the massive deficit run up by the Labour government which Labour supporters blame on the global financial crisis and everyone else blames on Labour's inability to budget properly due to Brown's delusion that somehow he had abolished the economic cycle.

VAT no choice, for the low income, pensioners, people unable to work, kids, its a regressive tax and hits them hard.

IncomeTax is at least a fairer tax.

Ultimately atax has to be collcted, the tories prefer VAT, Labour and generally the libs prefer a wealth distributing tax.

My issue here is blatant deceit.
We just had an election, any new tax within a year , should have been in the manisfesto, cos ther tories certainly had room to explain tax cuts and the air time to slag off NI rise.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Oh, I didn't realise that as BHA supporters we had to be Tories.

or labour voters?

 

[Kumquat]

But but how can any party go through an election campaign and not tell us that they will increase VAT. If this coalition does this it will again be another unbelievable lie to the electorate.

Lets forget about cleaning up parliament, just stick to your promises.

Maggie did it in 1979 - justified it on getting in and finding the finances were worse than they imagined. They can always try that one. With Labour's performance people would believe it.

 

[ropey9]

Amazing, people think your rich if you earn 50k+,

A simple break down for you, I earn 55K which nets approx £3200 per month which is paying nearly £1600 in taxes and NI, and you think I should be paying more (you can fuck off)

Living in opulent Portslade, this is an approximate breakdown of the house makeup and finances.

People
=====
Me
Wife (Doesn't work, pointless couldn't afford the childcare)
9yr boy
8yr girl
5yr girl
3yr boy

Money In
========
3208 - Salary

Money Out
========
-1287 - Mortgage
-250 - Gas/Elec/Water
-800 - Food, Kids Clothes
-100 - Car
-360 - Travel To Work
-70 - Sky/Phone/Broadband
-130 - Council Tax
-30 - Life Insurance

Disposable
=========
181

So I maybe fortunate enough that my wife doesn't need to work, but that's a necessity as we have 4 children all under 10. I resent paying the tax/NI that I currently have to.

I guess we live quite comfortable without having to struggle too much, we don't have any debt apart from the mortgage.

There isn't a lot of trim in the outgoings I could cancel sky and save about 45 on the 70 there and we could lose the car as public transport is excellent where we are, but it certainly isn't a I fancy a new 50" tv I'll go and get one in my BMW X5 lifestyle (its a Zafira), that I get the impression a lot of people have.

I know plenty of people on Benefits who appear to have a damn site easier time of it then I do.

 

[London Calling]

Amazing, people think your rich if you earn 50k+,

A simple break down for you, I earn 55K which nets approx £3200 per month which is paying nearly £1600 in taxes and NI, and you think I should be paying more (you can fuck off)

iNTEREESTING COS IN THE DEBATES, cameron and clegg both REFERED TO PEOPLE on 50k AS well off, who didn't need child tax credit.

 

[sten_super]

iNTEREESTING COS IN THE DEBATES, cameron and clegg both REFERED TO PEOPLE on 50k AS well off, who didn't need child tax credit.

Presumably because the average income is something like £22k (I don't know the exact figure) while the median is more like £18k. Even in a dual earner household that would put ropey9 above average.

I think a lot of it depends upon your stage of life. I earn well above the average, as does my fiancee, and we manage to have a good standard of living while saving (for wedding/house deposit). However that's because our fixed costs are minimal (around £1500 at a guess for rent, food, bills). No idea how we'd manage our finance if we became a single earner household and had an extra mouth to feed.

 

[sten_super]

FT.com / Global Economy - IMF warns rich countries on debt

FT article in which the IMF report that public debts are continuing to rise across the globe, and are advocating a removal of exceptions to VAT and a hike in the basic rates as a way for all economies to combat the debt. It suggests that cutting in half the exemptions on UK VAT would raise 3.3% of GDP.

 

[The Oldman]

Problem I surpose of people living in a relatively wealthy area such as Brighton, with no reality of the deprivation, unemployment and low income of people in the large inner cities, Wales, North and midlands.

My borough, 60% of households have benefits. It has the highest unemploymnet rate in the UK.

So VAT rises hit harder than a rise in NI or Income Tax.

Pensioners round here certainly aren't rich, and if they have a private pension then great.

You work, you pay that's the fair way of distributing money.

The number of punters on hee who have critisced Labour for the widening gaps in Income - which then support VAT tax increase over Income Tax, which will then perpetuate the gap in earnings!!!

The new lot are saying that you will not pay income tax on the first £10000. That will surely help most the low earners.

 

[London Calling]

The new lot are saying that you will not pay income tax on the first £10000. That will surely help most the low earners.

Perhaps that there way of balancing out, however....................

Interestingly even the retail giant Sainsbury, says the vat rise will take away all of the benefit of the £10k threshold.