[Politics] Loony labour vote to abolish private education

[The Rivet]

If I had the money, you would never stop my child having a superior attempt at education rather than the sorry state schools. Abroad if necessary. Idiot thinking to 'abolish'!

 

[Chicken Run]

Of course, but there are about 700,000 children in each school year and 7pc get a huge head start in life by an accident of birth. Over decades and generations, that can only increase the inequality in society, which brings all manner of ills along with it.

I don’t get this accident of birth shit!!!

Two people with money decide to have a child, what’s accidental about that, unless you’re suggesting that in the special stork perch they randomly pick each child to pop out of mummies tummy?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I’m not sure, to be honest, and I agree it’s not clear-cut or straightforward (I was mainly thinking about the private education question, which I think is clearer, albeit also not a simple policy problem).

However..... I suspect it would be possible to devise a system which works better than the current inheritance tax system.

You ask what I see as “unearned” capital assets - well I can give you my own example - I was lucky enough to buy a 3-bed maisonette in central Brighton in my late 20s in 1984 for £27k. As a result of that luck, I’m now in my 60s sitting on housing equity worth something like 35-40 times that amount. Even if the original £27k plus the mortgage interest I paid can be seen as “earned”, the vast bulk of that capital appreciation is entirely unearned by me (let alone earned by my kids who might inherit it, at least they would if I could be arsed to find ways round the IHT, or decide not to leave the lot to charity) - all I did was sit there watching it grow over time. Even the original house purchase decision can’t be attributed to my ability or knowledge, as there was no way I could have predicted the subsequent ridiculous trajectory of the UK housing market. Other people of the same age and ability as me, who made different housing decisions to me, or happened to live in different places, will be much less well placed to leave huge assets to their kids. So yes, I think that’s a clear example of an unearned asset that a rational government (if they weren’t terrified of the ire of the Daily Mail) would prevent me passing on. Such a change would, incidentally also have a very positive effect on the housing market and economy, helping to move it towards a system in which houses are places to live in rather than financial assets, and helping to direct savings away from housing towards investment in productive assets

I hope you don't have a private pension that's invested in shares - loads of unearned income there ( assuming it's invested in the right shares ! ).

 

[wellquickwoody]

- and the wider reduction in passing of privilege down through families (e.g. 100% inheritance tax over £50,000) - WILL be a very good thing when the country comes to its senses at some point.

Wow, that really is the politics of envy.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Wow, that really is the politics of envy.

Would not be posting like that if the personal circumstances were different methinks.

 

[BadFish]

If the commies get into power, we are in deep doodoos.

Well thankfully people can keep voting for the Tories and things will carry on being peachy.

In fact things should be even more Tory without the EU to rein them in.

Lucky you.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Would not be posting like that if the personal circumstances were different methinks.

I love this suggestion that views have to be motivated by self interest. So revealing about the individual making that accusation.




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[Bold Seagull]

I don’t get this accident of birth shit!!!

Two people with money decide to have a child, what’s accidental about that, unless you’re suggesting that in the special stork perch they randomly pick each child to pop out of mummies tummy?

 

[highflyer]

I went to private school (and also a state school).
If I were to take a position based on my personal experience - it would be, 100%, that we would be a healthier society without private schools.

However, individual examples, which seem to form the basis of most arguments around this, are not the point. Private school's are part of a much bigger picture, part of a system that maintains, and increases inequality and privilige. All the wider data and statistics point towards the fact that, overall, they provide regressive outcomes in education and in life. Getting rid of private schools is an iconic policy, but it is only really valuable as part of a much wider reform agenda.

Finland shows us what can be done (yes, privately run schools do exist in Finland, but nobody pays for education, they are state funded). That includes phasing out private schools, but hat has to be part of wider educational and social reform.

This, alongside many other proposals, is bold politics from Labour. I see it as a big gamble, and one that may not come off, but still a necessary one. Half measures, based on as centrist consensus cannot tackle the scale and urgency of the challenges we now face.

The most interesting, and brutal, politics in the UK right now is taking place within the Labour movement (OK, the politics within the Tory party may be a bit more brutal, but a lot less interesting). Unfortunately we don't get very useful coverage because of the utter obsession with Brexit (a temporary, and ultimately fairly minor, issue).

 

[BLOCK F]

I hope you don't have a private pension that's invested in shares - loads of unearned income there ( assuming it's invested in the right shares ! ).

That was something I was trying to get across to Soistes.........to no avail.

 

[BLOCK F]

I love this suggestion that views have to be motivated by self interest. So revealing about the individual making that accusation.




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Moshe, You are 'Away With The Fairies'.

 

[highflyer]

Moshe, You are 'Away With The Fairies'.

He is right though.

So many arguments I see are made on the basis that everyone else thinks like you (not you specifically BLOCK F, just a general 'you')
The assumption that self interest drives individual decisions is central to so much in our economics and politics and yet it is flawed.

Evidence seems to be that pure self interest is not a 'natural' instinct, but that most of us can be manipulated to act in either in self interest or in ways that put the common interest of society/nature ahead of our own. And we are manipulated far more easily than we ever want to admit (exhibit A being the size of the marketing industry).

If I was driven purely by economic self interest I'd be a Tory.

 

[Bakero]

I don’t get this accident of birth shit!!!

Two people with money decide to have a child, what’s accidental about that, unless you’re suggesting that in the special stork perch they randomly pick each child to pop out of mummies tummy?

Hope this helps

 

[BLOCK F]

He is right though.

So many arguments I see are made on the basis that everyone else thinks like you (not you specifically BLOCK F, just a general 'you')
The assumption that self interest drives individual decisions is central to so much in our economics and politics and yet it is flawed.

Evidence seems to be that pure self interest is not a 'natural' instinct, but that most of us can be manipulated to act in either in self interest or in ways that put the common interest of society/nature ahead of our own. And we are manipulated far more easily than we ever want to admit (exhibit A being the size of the marketing industry).

If I was driven purely by economic self interest I'd be a Tory.

I understand where you are coming from, Highflyer, but if you read through Moshe's several posts, you will understand the reasoning behind my comment re Fairies.
By the way, your comment re Tories and your own political instincts does suggest that you rather view Tories to be bad, selfish and baby -eaters and the Left to be all sweetness and light and kindness personified. It ain't that simple is it, nor is it a correct assumption.

 

[Bakero]

Would not be posting like that if the personal circumstances were different methinks.

Damn straight. Marx and Engels never would've written the Communist Manifesto if it weren't for the grinding poverty of their childhoods.

Oh.

 

[Reddleman]

As always with labour it’s the politics of envy. People want something they can’t afford so let’s just ban it and take it away from everyone.

 

[schmunk]

Damn straight. Marx and Engels never would've written the Communist Manifesto if it weren't for the grinding poverty of their childhoods.

Oh.

My brother knows Karl Marx, he met him eating mushrooms in the People's Park. He said "what do you think about my manifesto?", "I like your manifesto, let's put it to the test-o".

 

[WATFORD zero]

As always with labour it’s the politics of envy. People want something they can’t afford so let’s just ban it and take it away from everyone.

Because you can't afford it and may be envious, i really don't think you should assume that everyone else is the same as you.

Have you ever considered why some people who could afford to send their kids to private school don't ?

Have you ever considered why some people who are paying the top rate in income tax would choose to continue to be paid under PAYE instead of avoiding tax by being paid through a company they wholly own ?

Some people may call not call it envy, they may call it principles

 

[Bakero]

Some people may call not call it envy, they may call it principles

Some people deal in cliches, not principles.

 

[highflyer]

I understand where you are coming from, Highflyer, but if you read through Moshe's several posts, you will understand the reasoning behind my comment re Fairies.
By the way, your comment re Tories and your own political instincts does suggest that you rather view Tories to be bad, selfish and baby -eaters and the Left to be all sweetness and light and kindness personified. It ain't that simple is it, nor is it a correct assumption.

It's not about individual personalities. ********s and decent people on both sides (though having attended all the party conferences at various points over the years, I know where I'd rather hang around socially). But the principles of self interest, vs wider shared interest is pretty core to the econmic assumptionson each side.