[Politics] Loony labour vote to abolish private education

[Diablo]

And how far do you stretch this myth about it being unfair and only the rich using it ? I'd like one of those really big houses between Dyke Road and Goldstone Crescent - is it fair that someone can afford them but I can't ? My kids will want their own cars - they can't afford them - now I'm sure that Woody Cook who went to the same 6th form as my step-daughter won't have a problem getting one - that's hardly fair ! How far do you go to 'level' this line of inequality ?

Interesting point ...What would happen to all the big houses ? No doubt Rolls Royce would be abolished and all cars redistributed to its workers!

quick get a job a Rolls !

 

[ManOfSussex]

Hmm, 'devisive' eh?
No wonder you taught in 100 schools in 17 years, did they all sack you?

Perhaps he's a supply teacher working across 100 schools trying to help plug the gaps in the state education sector and help 6,000 children who's parents weren't rich enough to send them to posh schools?

It's why I only got a 'D' in GCSE French despite going to, at the time, the best academically performing state secondary school in East Sussex - I can't even remember how French teachers I had because they were all supply teachers, stoically trying their best with one hand tied behind their back, thanks to privately educated, Tory Secretaries of State for Education oppressing them and all the best French teachers working at Lancing College or Tonbridge School etc.

 

[BLOCK F]

Excellent idea and long overdue. Less English public school numpties = a better world.

Harsh.
Let us say, less numpties from ALL walks of life = a much better world.

P.S. My numpties are numptier than your numpties!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Ok take your point on that but it still doesn't answer the point of why shouldn't someone be able to pay for a better service/product if they can afford to do so including education.

I also don't understand why people get the hump about politicians or business leaders coming from a privately educated background? Surely you want the people at the top to have had best possible education available?

Of course, and I want that best possible education to be from the state, available to all.

 

[Diablo]

Perhaps he's a supply teacher working across 100 schools trying to help plug the gaps in the state education sector and help 6,000 children who's parents weren't rich enough to send them to posh schools?

It's why I only got a 'D' in GCSE French despite going to, at the time, the best academically performing state secondary school in East Sussex - I can't even remember how French teachers I had because they were all supply teachers, stoically trying their best with one hand tied behind their back, thanks to privately educated, Tory Secretaries of State for Education oppressing them and all the best French teachers working at Lancing College or Tonbridge School etc.

Why on earth did you want a GCSE in French ?

 

[BLOCK F]

Well I think one good principle would be to base it on your own efforts and merits - so I've got no problem with you working hard, earning a good wedge and buying yourself a decent house as a result. I think there is some "fairness" in that, as long as you paid your way in taxes en route (most people who do well financially in their careers only do so because they've made use of the social, physical and educational resources provided by the state and paid for by taxes, even when they seem to think it's all down to their own skill and entrepreneurial brilliance or whatever).

I don't see why that principle extends to you being able to buy an advantage for your kids, however - just because they happen to have the luck of being born to someone well off (rather than being born in poverty). They haven't 'earned' it in any sense. I can understand your wish to "do the best for your kids", of course - that's instinctive, but I don't see why the state should make it easier for you to do so, by allowing you to buy them segregated education, or leave large quantities of unearned capital assets to them.

I don't see how you can separate so called 'unearned capital assets' away from other assets, whatever they may be.
Anyway, how, in your world, would you stop the transfer of dosh during a lifetime from parents to children and how far would that extend?

 

[BLOCK F]

Perhaps he's a supply teacher working across 100 schools trying to help plug the gaps in the state education sector and help 6,000 children who's parents weren't rich enough to send them to posh schools?

It's why I only got a 'D' in GCSE French despite going to, at the time, the best academically performing state secondary school in East Sussex - I can't even remember how French teachers I had because they were all supply teachers, stoically trying their best with one hand tied behind their back, thanks to privately educated, Tory Secretaries of State for Education oppressing them and all the best French teachers working at Lancing College or Tonbridge School etc.

I know! My son works as a supply teacher; but forgive me, I couldn't resist the spelling mistake, probably because I am a public school numpty

 

[Arkwright]

Not that I've got either loads of cash or any children, however if I had both I would pay out to give my children a private education. What is so wrong in investing in your families future and giving them the best start available in life.
One other thing my local private school Caterham School are probably the biggest employer in the area and also invest thousands of pounds into the community. I was chairman of the local cricket club when sadly the clubhouse was burnt down and the school and local rugby club came to our rescue and guaranteed our future as part of the schools community scheme.
Local to me is Whitgift in Croydon who offer dozens of sports scholarships to children who simply wouldn't have had the opportunities given to them, I'm sure Loftus-Cheek came through a sports scholarship. This proves it's not all about rich kids and individuals and the community can benefit.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because the state partly subsidises private education. Therefore your comparison with buying a ticket between the North or 1901 doesn't work unless the 1901 is VAT exempt and has tax breaks for the Albion from the government but the North stand doesn't.

i wonder, do you consider your pension (assuming in work and contributing) is subsidised?

 

[brianwade]

Been reported by the BBC that Labour Party members have today agreed to abolish private schools and integrate them and their assets into the state school system. If heaven forbid Corbyn became PM.

My view is this is deeply worrying as it is another example of Corbyns hard left labour trying to turn the UK into something akin to a communist state. No freedom of choice just do what we say. What next every Mercedes or BMW driver having to donate their cars to people that can only afford bicycles!

Labour used to be a respectable, responsible but caring party but under corbyn it has just morphed into an extremist socialist workers wet dream. How can anyone take labour seriously, they make even Boris look sensible

I'd love to agree with you but then both of us would be wrong - Whats this got to do with Brighton AND Hove Albion ( it's a football cub) ? . Join a political party if you want to talk about politics . How does this policy affect our football club ? Are you worried that we wont be able to get any more players from public schools anymore ? what's the point of your post ? Are you a complete moron ?

 

[BLOCK F]

So, those that definitely can’t afford private schools, should subsidise those who can only just afford it?
I don’t want my taxes used to prop up public schools, I’d rather see the Government reverse state education cuts, to the benefit of ALL the children in the country, not the elitist 7%.

I understand your argument, but I just wanted to illustrate what may well happen.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Why on earth did you want a GCSE in French ?

I got a 'C' or above at everything else and that's the only one I didn't and the lack of permanent French teachers was the main reason. Along with politely declining the overtures of Sarah from my form group, who waited 5 whole years to ask me out on the last day, because she turned into an absolute stunner by the age of 18, failing French has been as much an annoyance and a regret as her. I ran into her in a nightclub a few years later and tried chatting her up because she was well fit, but she never forgave me for what I did at school and I was blown out.

 

[BLOCK F]

I'd love to agree with you but then both of us would be wrong - Whats this got to do with Brighton AND Hove Albion ( it's a football cub) ? . Join a political party if you want to talk about politics . How does this policy affect our football club ? Are you worried that we wont be able to get any more players from public schools anymore ? what's the point of your post ? Are you a complete moron ?

Calm down Brian, NSC is a forum for the fans of the Albion, but in case it has escaped your attention, matters other than football do get discussed. or are you just a piss taker?

 

[soistes]

I don't see how you can separate so called 'unearned capital assets' away from other assets, whatever they may be.
Anyway, how, in your world, would you stop the transfer of dosh during a lifetime from parents to children and how far would that extend?

I’m not sure, to be honest, and I agree it’s not clear-cut or straightforward (I was mainly thinking about the private education question, which I think is clearer, albeit also not a simple policy problem).

However..... I suspect it would be possible to devise a system which works better than the current inheritance tax system.

You ask what I see as “unearned” capital assets - well I can give you my own example - I was lucky enough to buy a 3-bed maisonette in central Brighton in my late 20s in 1984 for £27k. As a result of that luck, I’m now in my 60s sitting on housing equity worth something like 35-40 times that amount. Even if the original £27k plus the mortgage interest I paid can be seen as “earned”, the vast bulk of that capital appreciation is entirely unearned by me (let alone earned by my kids who might inherit it, at least they would if I could be arsed to find ways round the IHT, or decide not to leave the lot to charity) - all I did was sit there watching it grow over time. Even the original house purchase decision can’t be attributed to my ability or knowledge, as there was no way I could have predicted the subsequent ridiculous trajectory of the UK housing market. Other people of the same age and ability as me, who made different housing decisions to me, or happened to live in different places, will be much less well placed to leave huge assets to their kids. So yes, I think that’s a clear example of an unearned asset that a rational government (if they weren’t terrified of the ire of the Daily Mail) would prevent me passing on. Such a change would, incidentally also have a very positive effect on the housing market and economy, helping to move it towards a system in which houses are places to live in rather than financial assets, and helping to direct savings away from housing towards investment in productive assets

 

[Silverhatch]

Ok take your point on that but it still doesn't answer the point of why shouldn't someone be able to pay for a better service/product if they can afford to do so including education.

I also don't understand why people get the hump about politicians or business leaders coming from a privately educated background? Surely you want the people at the top to have had best possible education available?

The best possible education... that money can buy. The issue is that these business leaders and politicians also represent the 95+% of workers/voters that cannot afford to buy anything other than what's on offer from their locality/country/society. Meritocracy in education, politics and business is illusory.

 

[lawros left foot]

The tax system is wildly inconsistent - to take one of your examples, there is no VAT on buying a house.

However, I do think that private school fees should be VATable and that the charity status should be removed. I worry a bit about the fact that the latter would remove any incentive for such schools to grant free places to local bright, poor kids - which most do; it’s one way of meeting the requirements of being a “charity”. I’d still do it though.

ndependent schools are obligated to offer assistance and make themselves more accessible to people from disadvantaged backgrounds, or with reduced means. It is therefore perverse then, that bursaries and means-tested assistance is still being offered by private schools to families with incomes up to £140,000 per year.



St Pauls’ School in Barnes offers the financial aid to families with an income up to £120,000. The girls school offers the assistance to families with an income up to £110,000. At King Edward’s School in Birmingham, families earning up to £72,000 can qualify for financial help.

Not only are the definitions for what constitutes a lack of means or a disadvantaged background shifting to become antithetical to means-testing’s purpose, but the prevalence of means-tested financial aid itself is falling.

According to the Independent Schools Council’s 2018 annual census and report, the provision of means-tested scholarships has dropped 9%, from £22m to £20m between 2017 and 2018, whilst the provision of non-means-tested scholarships has risen 7% from £174m to £186m between 2017 and 2018.

At the same time, from 2007, the average independent school has raised its fees by 59%, which is far above inflation, constituting a rise of 29% in real terms.

Increasingly, private schools market themselves as fully enclosed retreats, with vast swathes of land, en-suite dorms, concert halls, dance studios and swimming pools. Pretty plush, one would think, for a supposed charity.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I got a 'C' or above at everything else and that's the only one I didn't and the lack of permanent French teachers was the main reason. Along with politely declining the overtures of Sarah from my form group, who waited 5 whole years to ask me out on the last day, because she turned into an absolute stunner by the age of 18, failing French has been as much an annoyance and a regret as her. I ran into her in a nightclub a few years later and tried chatting her up because she was well fit, but she never forgave me for what I did at school and I was blown out.

At least it ended well though.

 

[ManOfSussex]

At least it ended well though.

If only..............

 

[BLOCK F]

I got a 'C' or above at everything else and that's the only one I didn't and the lack of permanent French teachers was the main reason. Along with politely declining the overtures of Sarah from my form group, who waited 5 whole years to ask me out on the last day, because she turned into an absolute stunner by the age of 18, failing French has been as much an annoyance and a regret as her. I ran into her in a nightclub a few years later and tried chatting her up because she was well fit, but she never forgave me for what I did at school and I was blown out.

The regrets of our youth!
If only I'd had the courage to ask Ginny out all those years ago. Her with the lovely red hair and ridiculously long eyelashes
What a numpty I was.

 

[schmunk]

The regrets of our youth!
If only I'd had the courage to ask Ginny out all those years ago. Her with the lovely red hair and ridiculously long eyelashes
What a numpty I was.

Then that speccy four-eyes Potter swept in and took her away from you...?