[Politics] Loony labour vote to abolish private education

[Bold Seagull]

I had no idea you didn't to be honest but not sure what that has got to do with anything?

Because the state partly subsidises private education. Therefore your comparison with buying a ticket between the North or 1901 doesn't work unless the 1901 is VAT exempt and has tax breaks for the Albion from the government but the North stand doesn't.

 

[ManOfSussex]

And I'd agree with that policy. I don't agree with forcibly shutting down private schools and removing their assets.

I do.

I always remember England v Moldova in September 1997. (It was right after Diana, Princess of Wales was murdered by MI6 on The Duke of Edinburgh's say so because a car crash in Paris was easier to do than a bullet in London.) Anyway I got 4 tickets and my mate Andy didn't really drink, so he drove the 3 of us who did and we parked at Harrow-On-The Hill, went to The Castle pub and got wasted, then walked down and got the tube to Wembley Park. Either side of the road on Harrow-On-Hill is the public school (the list of Old Harovians over the last 400+ years is disturbing on so many levels) and as we walked along through it singing 'Eng-ger-land, Eng-ger-land, Eng-ger-land' all these public school numpties, doing their evening prep, appeared at the windows looking at us and smiling. In a nanosecond, in an act of utter, inspired, genius - I came up with a great idea - I called up to this public school numptie with a floppy haircut leaning out the window and said: 'Oi mate, where's David Elleray?' and the public school numptie leaned back and pointed across the road and mouthed 'Over there' and I turned to where he pointed and started up a song of 'David Elleray! What a ***ker, what ***ker!' and all the public school numpties roared with laughter. They'd never seen or heard anything like it!

If I had my way though, Harrow School would be merged with Harrow High School and those public school numpties would be banned from playing cricket at Lord's against Eton College and playing 'Harrow football' would be a criminal offence, along with the Eton Wall Game and any variation of whatever the hell 'fives' is.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Okay, so if you agree with it being a commodity in the same sense as a house or car, then it should be taxed the same, VAT applied, no charity status etc. There should be no funding at all from the public purse, and no tax breaks. That is what you have just stated basically.

The tax system is wildly inconsistent - to take one of your examples, there is no VAT on buying a house.

However, I do think that private school fees should be VATable and that the charity status should be removed. I worry a bit about the fact that the latter would remove any incentive for such schools to grant free places to local bright, poor kids - which most do; it’s one way of meeting the requirements of being a “charity”. I’d still do it though.

 

[Gritt23]

I agree with you that the Labour Party is a dreadful let down just when we need it to be strong and united. However, you have to ask yourself why a policy to " integrate" public schools or a polcy to make inheritance more fairly taxed is unpopualar. Common sense says most people should support both. Could it have something to do with the Mail, the Sun the Telegraph and the Express.? These ate not extteme policies

Hmm, suggesting "common sense" is to say anyone who disagrees doesn't have any. Nice.

It's about choice mate. Why shouldn't someone make such a choice with how to spend their money? Do you make private tutors illegal as well?

 

[Moshe Gariani]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49787913

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I'll put my hand up - I am very much in favour of huge inheritance tax introductions and it is for that exact reason. I am aware it is very much the politics of envy but I don't think that makes it void. I am a public sector worker who earns a nice salary but nothing exciting. My wife's parents own a house worth about £150k up north and she is one of 6, and my parents do not own property. We are lucky enough to have saved up enough deposit buy a small house, however it is very small and we'll never be able to upgrade, as the mortgage is a stretch as it is for us - salaries are unlikely to increase (apart from with inflation if we're lucky) and to be honest interest rates will probably rise substantially at some point between now and the mortage being paid off (when we are 65). However the majority of people I work with live in bigger houses, in nicer areas, and are paying way less on their mortgage each month - purely because their parents have helped them out.

I get the arguments for inheritance - i.e. the prospect of handing down property is a huge motivator for people to work hard, and particularly the sentimental issue over family homes etc. But it's a strange society when people can achieve the same qualifications, do the same job to the same standard, and yet have such different standards of living to their co-workers due to the fortune of how successful and prudent their parents were.

And yes, I am a completely jealous *******.

Well said

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[Goldstone1976]

...class sizes that are comparable...

...we get state education to the point where class sizes of 20 are the norm...

Class sizes for A levels in private schools are almost always way under 20. ~6-10, depending on school and subject is more like it. ~12-15 for GCSEs.

 

[BLOCK F]

The biggest iniquity of the Public school taxation break, is that as ‘charities ‘ they pay only 20% business rates.State schools, but not free schools or academies, pay100% of business rates. Most state schools are ‘ in debt ‘ some to the tune of half a million quid. Eton meanwhile, has an annual income in the region of £60 million pounds from fees and donations, £12.5 million investment income, and £437 million funds carried over, and yet, they are still a charity, and as such, get tax breaks.
They do provide free education for 83 pupils though.
As a lefty myself, I would tax public schools the full amount by removing their charitable status, and I would remove the VAT exempt status from school fees. Don’t ban them, just level the playing field.

Well, fees would then go up even further and they would become really 'elitist' as they would be priced out of the range of those parents who, at present, struggle to send their offspring to private school, but just about manage.
They would then become only available to the very wealthy.
That doesn't really help anything!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Not necessarily obsessed. Just merely inquisitive as to how the wonderful lady can back such a policy having tried to send her son to a fee paying school.

I'm really not bothered about her or where her children go to school, though I do appreciate a lot of people take a very keen interest in a black woman in her 60's with differing views to them, for whatever reason. If she's a hypocrite, so be it. Other than her Mother being an NHS Midwife like mine was, she's frankly irrelevant to my life and never enters my thoughts as I don't live in Hackney North and Stoke Newington.

I will declare an interest though - I did once vote for her. I was a Labour Party member up until 1998, joining under John Smith and the last thing I did before letting my membership lapse was vote in some NEC election. If I recall correctly I had up to 4 votes for 4 different candidates and I voted for some Union bloke who used to be a Communist, Tony Benn, Michael Cashman because he was in Eastenders and Diane Abbott - I didn't agree with any of them, it was just a proverbial 'up yours' to Tony Blair, but I've voted for Ms Abbott. No idea what the final result was, because I wasn't bothered.

 

[MattBackHome]

Just restrict the % of uni acceptance places to the % of kids in paid education. Simples.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

The Tory party is now controlled by those wearing masks.

How big a mask do you want?

Never trust a man with a beard.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Finland decided to integrate private schools some 30 to 40 years ago and now has one of the best education systems in the world. Private education is ineffiicient and grossly unfiar becuase it promotes mediocre talent and reduces the life chances of the 93% who are state educated. The remaing 7% dominate every aspect of British society - the law, business, the arts, sport, politics etc etc. If you have children who are in the 93% why would you accept this gross distortion?

Very well put.

Talentless buffoons like Cameron & Bojo the Clown would be nowhere near government because the system would be a meritocracy rather than an old boys network.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Never trust a man with a beard.

 

[soistes]

And how far do you stretch this myth about it being unfair and only the rich using it ? I'd like one of those really big houses between Dyke Road and Goldstone Crescent - is it fair that someone can afford them but I can't ? My kids will want their own cars - they can't afford them - now I'm sure that Woody Cook who went to the same 6th form as my step-daughter won't have a problem getting one - that's hardly fair ! How far do you go to 'level' this line of inequality ?

Well I think one good principle would be to base it on your own efforts and merits - so I've got no problem with you working hard, earning a good wedge and buying yourself a decent house as a result. I think there is some "fairness" in that, as long as you paid your way in taxes en route (most people who do well financially in their careers only do so because they've made use of the social, physical and educational resources provided by the state and paid for by taxes, even when they seem to think it's all down to their own skill and entrepreneurial brilliance or whatever).

I don't see why that principle extends to you being able to buy an advantage for your kids, however - just because they happen to have the luck of being born to someone well off (rather than being born in poverty). They haven't 'earned' it in any sense. I can understand your wish to "do the best for your kids", of course - that's instinctive, but I don't see why the state should make it easier for you to do so, by allowing you to buy them segregated education, or leave large quantities of unearned capital assets to them.

 

[Bold Seagull]

View attachment 115564

 

[lawros left foot]

Well, fees would then go up even further and they would become really 'elitist' as they would be priced out of the range of those parents who, at present, struggle to send their offspring to private school, but just about manage.
They would then become only available to the very wealthy.
That doesn't really help anything!

So, those that definitely can’t afford private schools, should subsidise those who can only just afford it?
I don’t want my taxes used to prop up public schools, I’d rather see the Government reverse state education cuts, to the benefit of ALL the children in the country, not the elitist 7%.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well, fees would then go up even further and they would become really 'elitist' as they would be priced out of the range of those parents who, at present, struggle to send their offspring to private school, but just about manage.
They would then become only available to the very wealthy.
That doesn't really help anything!

A sound argument for getting rid of them altogether.

 

[BLOCK F]

As a Teacher for 17 years and having taught over 6,000 kids in more than 100 schools, I say bring it on! Our devisive system is toilet and not fit for purpose. On almost every measure Finnish education surpasses the rest of the world. It's not just because of their class sizes, no homework, no national exams till 16, learning through play until 7, the main reason is it is illegal to open a private school. This way the rich, knowing their kids have to go to school with the hoy polloi, demand to pay higher taxes to ensure all schools are well funded and of the highest standard. Eton receives more state funding than any state school. And Ofsted can go f**k itself - bunch of bullies.

Hmm, 'devisive' eh?
No wonder you taught in 100 schools in 17 years, did they all sack you?

 

[BLOCK F]

Why has nobody mentioned that Labour want to abolish OFSTED for a better system.
Now that I do agree with it has put the young under the most ridiculous pressure and stress.
SAT testing the very young my arse.

What is this better system?
Is it one that saw councils preside over scandals such as Rotherham and Rochdale?

 

[Arthur]

Because the state partly subsidises private education. Therefore your comparison with buying a ticket between the North or 1901 doesn't work unless the 1901 is VAT exempt and has tax breaks for the Albion from the government but the North stand doesn't.

Ok take your point on that but it still doesn't answer the point of why shouldn't someone be able to pay for a better service/product if they can afford to do so including education.

I also don't understand why people get the hump about politicians or business leaders coming from a privately educated background? Surely you want the people at the top to have had best possible education available?