[Misc] Looks like “we are Brighton “ has crossed the line on twitter

[Triggaaar]

Triggaaar, I've greatly enjoyed reading your contributions on NSC for a number of years now

Bloody hell, that's a low blow. Try and take the wind out of my sails before I've had a chance to get going.

so it's right to respond in a conciliatory tone and look for areas of agreement. Hopefully that might clear up a few misconceptions. It's all too easy for viewpoints to be unnecessarily polarized.

Well this isn't very NSC at all. I haven't even read what you're about to say, and I'm already at a loss for words.

Yes, I'd agree with you that human rights atrocities across the world should be exposed. There shouldn't be anything that's off the table here. It's particularly painful when sport that we love so much is involved. Of course, this isn't limited to this part of the world. Russia hosted the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi - here's a link to an informative article about the hundreds of migrants, mainly Uzbek, who died in the construction work there. https://www.rferl.org/a/ghosts-of-sochi-olympics-migrant-deaths/26779493.html

I'm no fan of the Russian dictator either.

That said, it's realistic to expect that it may take some time to change. As an example, in March 1807 the Slave Trade Act was finally passed in Parliament, but the first bill had been presented by William Wilberforce in April 1791, some 16 years earlier. Even then, it was only the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 which formerly freed 800,000 Africans who were then the legal property of Britain's slave owners. And what's worse, that act contained financial compensation to the slave owner for loss of property. This was 40% of the Government spending for 1834 and was the equivalent of between £16bn and £17bn in 2015. Every penny went to slave owners - nothing went to the slaves. And in 2007, 200 years after the Slave Trade Act, Tony Blair said sorry and stated the need "to remember what happened in the past, to condemn it and say why it was entirely unacceptable".

George Orwell once likened Britain to a wealthy family that maintains a guilty silence about the sources of its wealth. He saw it from a first-hand perspective - his own father was involved in the opium production near the Indian-Nepalese border that was then exported to China. So yes, let's definitely call things out on a global scale, including the Middle East, but let's be aware of our own shame as well. As someone who's taught History to secondary school students, I'd certainly agree with you with the need to "understand and remember the mistakes of the past in an effort not to repeat them". Even the parts that are too close to home for comfort.

All interesting points, and we do indeed learn about these things in the free world. We're also free to discuss the mistakes of our past, and any current mistakes. Britain was involved in the slave trade, as were many other nations. And slavery didn't start there, the Egyptians used slaves to build their pyramids, the Romans used slaves to build their empire. It is amazing how far the world has moved on since 1800, and depressing how little is changing in the middle-east even now in the 21st century. I don't only blame the middle-eastern dictators for this, I blame the rest of the world for not forcing them to reform, even just a little.

What I will say is that there are charities out here, at least in the UAE, who help migrant workers and those in need, e.g. runaway maids. Care packs are put together at Christmas / Easter / Valentine's Day that include toothbrushes, toothpaste, deodorant, socks, and also a phone card that they can speak with their families back home.

Well it's a start.

So if people, especially football fans, are looking to call out an example of modern-day exploitation, they could do worse than pressure football to do something about the scourge of betting companies and locking Kenyan kids into gambling addiction with the accompanying debt and poverty.

And we could boycott FIFA sponsors, since FIFA are responsible for the death of so many workers in Qatar.

Whilst there is certainly a long way to go in this country, there have been recent improvements such as the introduction in 2017 of the UAE Domestic Workers Rights Bill to bring the country's labor law into consistency with the International Labour Organization's (ILO) Domestic Workers Convention, providing migrant domestic workers with the same labor protections as other workers in the UAE. It's a start at least. And it's better than it was.

Indeed, and good to hear. Why do you think the UAE have done this? Is it because of external pressure, or because some sense of conscience has finally appeared among the leaders? And how can the same be done across other middle-eastern countries?

 

[Triggaaar]

The fact that it’s in Qatar anyway is exactly why politics (and backhanders) should have no place in football

Well of course they shouldn't, but they do.

 

[hart's shirt]

Why do you think the UAE have done this? Is it because of external pressure, or because some sense of conscience has finally appeared among the leaders? And how can the same be done across other middle-eastern countries?

Thanks for the reply. It seems like we agree on much here.

It's probably a combination of factors, but yes, international pressure from the likes of Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, etc. has certainly helped and is helping to shape the moral compass. The communication age in which we live helps to disseminate information far quicker than at any other time in human history, so that's been a hugely positive influence on raising awareness. And it definitely makes commercial sense here to appeal to tourists who are increasingly savvy and ethical. It's not what we want it to be yet, but it's not what it was. A case of work in progress and movement in the right direction, albeit slower than many would want.

It's also worth remembering that the Middle East is made up of many different countries - it's far too easy for those in the West to lump them all together. In reality, they're working at very different speeds with regards to social change. For all of its issues, I'd say that the UAE is probably further ahead than many in this part of the world. I watched the North London derby last night in the usual sports bar - at least 5 continents were represented by patrons there, including some local guys too. Ethnic diversity in action. When it comes to sport lovers and football fans in particular, there's so much more that we have in common with each other than our differences.

There's also been a lot of political change in the region in recent decades. The UAE itself is a very young country. I'm actually older than the country that I'm living in by a few months. It was only formed in December 1971 - before that, it formed part of the Trucial States which was not a formal protectorate, but was defended by Britain in exchange for exclusive British rights in the area. Exactly 200 years ago, it was part of the Pirate Coast which led to the British Persian Gulf campaign of 1819. It's not exactly recent history, but we were at war and the past always shapes the present. Since then, we've come a long way together...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucial_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_campaign_of_1819

Yes, awareness of FIFA sponsors (Adidas, Coca-Cola, Hyundai/Kia, Visa, Wanda and Qatar Airways) should only intensify in the next 3 years or so. It's been a horror story from the very start, and individuals can certainly play their part. Even with the desire to host the tournament on all major continents, as far as football's concerned, the 2022 tournament should clearly have gone to Australia with all the stadia already in place.

The gambling issue in Kenya, especially amongst the children, is massive. However much people like a bet, that's one of the biggest elephants in the room right now. Albion fans including those on NSC can vote with their wallets there and make a difference. On a corporate level, with so many Premier League teams having commercial deals with gambling companies, one can only hope the Albion steer clear of such deals in the future, however lucrative they might be. It certainly doesn't fit in with 'Brand Brighton' and everything that the city stands for.

It's best that the exploitation of Africa was consigned to the darkest parts of our history. We don't want to be apologizing again in another 200 years time.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Clumsy but he has a sort of point, could have also asks how many lives have been ruined by the betting industry.

 

[highflyer]

My view would be 'good point, badly made'

Which seems to pretty much sum up the majority view on this thread?

 

[Triggaaar]

It's probably a combination of factors, but yes, international pressure from the likes of Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, etc. has certainly helped and is helping to shape the moral compass.

Good news. Hopefully that continues, and spreads across the continent.

And it definitely makes commercial sense here to appeal to tourists who are increasingly savvy and ethical.

It's certainly put me off travelling to the middle east. Maybe one day that will change.