[Albion] Looking at the table

[Icy Gull]

Just my opinion.

In addition to not having won any points due to generous officiating .... (and have probably lost about 10 the other way) .... we've also not won a single point, where we've been the worst team but just skanked something against the run of play. Again, other teams have managed a fair bit of this against us.

To me, this is the difference to us and someone like Newcastle. I reckon we've been at a fairly similar level this season, and I reckon most metrics would back that up, but they've had a bit of rub of the green in tight matches and we haven't.

I'm not saying this to moan, more that we'll be trying to convince our irreplaceable players to give us one more season when bids are coming in for them next season. This is something we can say and they will know anyway. It won't take much of a chance of fortune to catapult us right to the top of the table on these performances.

True, count the deflected goals we’ve conceded and the deflected non goals that were saved by desperate defending against us. I am actually struggling to remember any deflected goals we’ve scored although there must be some?

 

[Bob!]

True, count the deflected goals we’ve conceded and the deflected non goals that were saved by desperate defending against us. I am actually struggling to remember any deflected goals we’ve scored although there must be some?

Solly's had a couple of goals chalked off, and added as OG due to deflections

 

[Whoislloydy]

I can't move on. Has Webb addressed the 5 queries that Brighton raised after his apology for only one of the incorrect decisions in the Great Kane robbery?

I was wondering this on the weekend.

 

[Winker]

Still angry

 

[Seagull58]

I take your point, but what good will "addressing" these five queries do? the only thing that will satisfy us fans anger is to add a point, (or three), to our points total, and that will never happen.

We have no choice but to move on, in the hope that we do force ourselves up to at least seventh in the table come the end of the season, and thus a European place.

We will never beat the PGMOL.

Addressing the 5 queries requires him to state why they happened and to explain what is being done to stop them happening again, or he could say they weren't errors. Either way it gets the response on record and provides ammo for the next time they rob us.

 

[nickjhs]

Unfortunately you need to look at the bigger picture.
The team has dropped plenty of their own points, without mithering on only about the ones we were cheated out of.

Every time I start sooking about being cheated this is where I head. But then I had a look at our results this season and to be honest there are not too many f*** ups, the only real stand out are the 4 points lost to forest. SO yep the Spurs and Palace games have had a tremendous effect on our standiong

 

[HastingsSeagull]

Yep. Especially spurs, but also palarse with the line drawn on the wrong player for everyone to see. A few other much more forgivable ones this season. Imagine the story that we’re not just battling for Europa, but sat in CL with games in hand.

 

[Nobby]

That's why I say, "a certain amount of human error is a part of football, but at what point does it exceed what could be deemed acceptable?" Hypothetically, does there come a point at which you'd say something had to be done? What if a team has a dodgy penalty awarded against it every game they play in, and a goal disallowed in every game? Is there a point at which you'd say something had to be done? Or do we just have to accept it because we don't want to rock the boat/set a bad precedent? When the errors are as egregious as what we've been on the receiving end of, and repeatedly so, I think it deserves looking into. Simply shrugging one's shoulders and moving on is an option I guess, but it hardly discourages it from continuing to happen.

I think that this is an excellent point.
There must come a point in time, when a club should be able to take legal action.
Is it ten apologies from the PGMOL, six, four?
Where should the line be drawn (pardon the pun).
Gross negligence is always a sackable offence. And an offence where legal action could possibly be taken.
I believe that in our sport the PGMOL have become untouchable.
Pathetic apologies for negligence wouldn't wash in any other walk of life. Some form of action would be taken.
For me, despite all of the “errors” in the Tottenham game, it was the Palace debacle that was the worst of the lot.
There must loads of examples of missed fouls in the box, incorrect handballs etc. (not all in one game, fair enough).
but how many times has the line been drawn against a defender who had a team mate behind him. And that over rules the onfield decision.
It just absolutely beggars belief that no further action was taken against that VAR official.
The VAR system is not fit for purpose, - the PGMOL are not fit for purpose
But "it is what it is" - and nothing, nothing will change.
We’ve potentially lost out on millions and millions of Champions League revenue because of it. And will probably lose some of our best players because if it.
Same as I’ve never forgotten the incredible Spurs / Southampton stitch up, I’ll never forget this season.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I understand what you mean. A certain amount of human error is a part of football, but at what point does it exceed what could be deemed acceptable?

I've been thinking about this a lot. I wonder whether the club would have a case for suing the EPL or PGMOL for what would certainly be massive losses caused by their incompetence/professional misconduct. I mean, it might sound far-fetched, but in other spheres of life that is what could happen. Football is serious business involving billions of pounds. There is so much riding on it, even in purely financial terms, and perhaps only some kind of legal action would be sufficient to make these bodies take their role seriously and reflect on the consequences of their incompetence (or whatever it was - I mean, that kind of level of incompetence is difficult to credit, like getting the off-side decision wrong because you put the line against the wrong defender, "oops!", or not awarding Mitoma a penalty when his foot is stamped on and you have VAR and dozens of TV cameras, "oops again!", or any of the other myriad errors). I say error rather than mistake, because while they were definitely errors, whether or not they were also mistakes is debatable, there being a difference between an error and a mistake.

I also agree that the apologies in themselves are somewhat worthless, although they are an admission of culpability which could be useful in a legal case were the club to decide to sue.

No doubt if the club were to pursue such a course there would be accusations of being bad losers from many quarters, and claims that other clubs have been just as badly robbed before but not resorted to those lengths. But would we not be doing everyone a favour in the long run? Is there not a case to be made that this aspect of the game (ie. dodgy decisions when the stakes are so massive) needs to come under greater scrutiny?

Edit: what I'd like to see happen is us get the points we deserve. Mere financial recompense for the club doesn't really make up for the loss of a place in the CL.

Despite the mistakes how do you confirm what the match result would have been for certain?

you can’t unfortunately which is why nothing can be done

 

[Peteinblack]

Still angry

Same here. If I dwell on it, I become furious at the prospect of losing out on European football next season, and because of that, losing some of our best players over the summer, which in turn, would mean rebuilding the squad next season and sinking back to mid-table mediocrity in the meantime.

Sorry if that makes me sound like an 'entitled' Albion fan.

 

[Shins]

It's still annoying but I don't look at it and think we should have 'x' number of points from any mistakes that refs, VAR, or we have made.

What's to say we beat Spurs but our mind set changed, or De Zerbi picked a slightly different side for Chelsea and we go on to lose a very loseable game. Each thing that happens shapes the next, so if you change something in the past it'll have a knock on effect. It's easy to think what if but then keep all the favourable moments the same.

Maybe that's all just a bit too deep for a Wednesday morning and I'm talking crap.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I think that this is an excellent point.
There must come a point in time, when a club should be able to take legal action.
Is it ten apologies from the PGMOL, six, four?
Where should the line be drawn (pardon the pun).
Gross negligence is always a sackable offence. And an offence where legal action could possibly be taken.
I believe that in our sport the PGMOL have become untouchable.
Pathetic apologies for negligence wouldn't wash in any other walk of life. Some form of action would be taken.
For me, despite all of the “errors” in the Tottenham game, it was the Palace debacle that was the worst of the lot.
There must loads of examples of missed fouls in the box, incorrect handballs etc. (not all in one game, fair enough).
but how many times has the line been drawn against a defender who had a team mate behind him. And that over rules the onfield decision.
It just absolutely beggars belief that no further action was taken against that VAR official.
The VAR system is not fit for purpose, - the PGMOL are not fit for purpose
But "it is what it is" - and nothing, nothing will change.
We’ve potentially lost out on millions and millions of Champions League revenue because of it. And will probably lose some of our best players because if it.
Same as I’ve never forgotten the incredible Spurs / Southampton stitch up, I’ll never forget this season.

I agree with the general thrust, but the question is what can be done?

There seems to be some code of silence about this coming from clubs and pundits. Sure you can have a go at an individual ref for an individual game, you can ludicrously claim a vendetta like Klopp did in an angry post match interview, but what you can’t do, is have a rational evidence based conversation in the cold light of day about big team bias, and whether VAR (either by accident or design) accentuates this. You certainly can’t ask questions about whether certain clubs are paying referees or officials for any “advisory” services and as far as I know any information about suspicious betting patterns is not in the public domain.

It's the culture of omerta and opacity that is cancerous to trust within the game. I for one, don’t always believe in the product I’m seeing. If I don’t, how many millions more are like me?

 

[Robinjakarta]

Never forgive. Never forget.

Still haven't forgotten or forgiven Burkinshaw and McMenemy. Or Challis.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Still haven't forgotten or forgiven Burkinshaw and McMenemy. Or Challis.

Nice grudge holding there mate

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

You could argue that Spurs have recently been robbed of two points against Liverpool because Jota shouldn’t have still been on the pitch. Over a season these things generally even themselves out, maybe not in corresponding fixtures but we’ll get some decisions and other times not. Maybe we’ll get a decision or two go our way before the end of the season. Paul Barber’s response to the Spurs game specifically was excellent. UTA.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

That would set a terrible precedent for every club that ever feels hard done by by a referee error.

At least we won't be relegated due to similar bungling. Imagine how that felt!

Referees can make mistakes because they see the action once in real time. And perhaps they don't have a clear view of the incident.

But the VAR officials see the incident again and again, from different angles, in slow motion. If something is debateable - it might go one way or might go the other. Most (but perhaps not all) of the decisions we're talking about here are 100% clearly wrong, which should never happen.

PGMOL needs to explain.

 

[Justice]

I take your point, but what good will "addressing" these five queries do? the only thing that will satisfy us fans anger is to add a point, (or three), to our points total, and that will never happen.

We have no choice but to move on, in the hope that we do force ourselves up to at least seventh in the table come the end of the season, and thus a European place.

We will never beat the PGMOL.

We should be at least be able to punch Attwell five times in the face.

 

[Triggaaar]

Wait and see how the table looks at the end of the season. One piece of bad luck with VAR can be written off as just "normal" bad luck and thus discounted.

If we finish below but within within only 3 points of 4th (or 7th) then that will be the time for sleepless nights and permanent misery about the injustice. This outcome is quite unlikely.

We've been robbed of more than a few points, and it's quite likely that will costs us in the end (you can add 6th to your list).

 

[Triggaaar]

You could argue that Spurs have recently been robbed of two points against Liverpool because Jota shouldn’t have still been on the pitch.

Jota should definitely have been sent off, but perhaps Spurs should have been down to 10 men when it was 3-0?

Over a season these things generally even themselves out

If you think the injustices against us this season have or will be evened out, you're mad.

 

[GT49er]

I'm quite positive abourt our remaining matches this season now. I've got a mate who knows someone whose brother-in-law works for PGMOL and he thinks they're shitehouse - but he also told the person that my mate knows that he's seen the latest memo form Webb to all the referees/VARs. Apparantly it said:
"If any of you f***ers makes me have to go and make another grovelling apology to Brighton and Hove f***ing Albion I will come round to your house and remove your testicles with a rusty hacksaw blade, then I'll sack you. If you must make a balls-up that needs me to make an apology, I don't mind if it's to Arsenal, or Villa, or one of the Manc clubs, but FFS not Brighton!"

I'm looking forard to a nice, easy and successful run-in!