LOADS of police just sped up Lewes Road

[Guy Fawkes]

I didn't go to the demo today 'cos I had WORK to do. Have been in the past.
Yes. EDO is 'perfectly legal', just as the bastards who gobbled up everything in the City were doing something 'perfectly legal' and so was Archer when he tried to destroy our club. If things like that are 'legal' then the law is WRONG!
And if you believe the law is wrong, you stand up against it. And, yes, take the consequences if need be!

We above all should never say that because something is 'legal' there is nothing wrong with it.

Out of here. Too much to do.

So let me get this right then, you are saying that a business that is operating completely within the law and it's employees are also working completely within the law are therefore legitimate targets of a mob who then choose to break the law to express their views opposing something that the targeted company has no power to change or any responibility for?

Why are these people who are opposed to the law failing to actually protest to the actual decision makers, The Government, - the people that can actually change the law if they are convinced by your arguement.

The current protest action against EDO is, if anything, counter productive, and if EDO are forced to close in Brighton, another supplier will just take over, whether they are based in the UK or abraod, meaning that nothing was achieved apart from putting law abiding members of the public out of work - However i expect, the protesters real aims are not for a change in the law but just to make trouble and violence for the thrill of it (and under a banner that tries to give them a legitimate excuse for their actions)

So are you suggesting, by comparison, that the Albions campaign for Falmer took so long because they campaigned by sending letters and postcards to politicians, and held peace marches at the Liberal Democrat party conference? - Should the fans have been violent and intimidated the cleaners of the Grand Hotel (and other hotels) where the deligates were actually staying instead, or maybe even the company that made the ID passes that they wore at the conference? or even maybe the Police for providing the security of the venue?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

And what's this got to do with a small defence contractor in Brighton? Do you approve of the UK having armed forces?

If no, and you accept a complete disbandment of our armed forces, then your view on violent protesting against this company is valid. If you don't want to lose out defence capabilities, then the support and supply of our armed forces is a necessary requirement.

The trouble with 'defence contractors' is, it's invariably got nothing whatsoever to do with defence. It's a polite name for the weapons industry. They ATTACK people. and usually innocent people at that. When did North Vietnam ever threaten Amerika? What harm did Iraq ever do to us? Agreed, it's not very nice that a few dinner ladies at EDO feel scared to go to work, but that don't change the fact that EDO are unwelcome in our town. Other towns maybe, but that's up to those towns and their moral conscience

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The trouble with 'defence contractors' is, it's invariably got nothing whatsoever to do with defence. It's a polite name for the weapons industry. They ATTACK people. and usually innocent people at that. When did North Vietnam ever threaten Amerika? What harm did Iraq ever do to us? Agreed, it's not very nice that a few dinner ladies at EDO feel scared to go to work, but that don't change the fact that EDO are unwelcome in our town. Other towns maybe, but that's up to those towns and their moral conscience

So what about other areas that supply and/or support the 'defence' industry, for example healthcare providers, or farms that grow the food that eventaully gets fed to the soldiers, why not target them too - thats as stupid as targeting EDO, a company who have absolutely no say in defence strategy or policy in the world.

And what about the flipside of our 'defence' providers, where our military, (and other countries from around the world) go into troubled areas, such as in the Balkans, to prevent the genocide and ethnic cleansing that was occuring, should they not produce the neccessary equipment needed to try to bring peace back to those areas where civilians are being routinely being displaced or even massacred?

 

[Barry Izbak]

So let me get this right then, you are saying that a business that is operating completely within the law and it's employees are also working completely within the law are therefore legitimate targets of a mob who then choose to break the law to express their views opposing something that the targeted company has no power to change or any responibility for?

Why are these people who are opposed to the law failing to actually protest to the actual decision makers, The Government, - the people that can actually change the law if they are convinced by your arguement.

The current protest action against EDO is, if anything, counter productive, and if EDO are forced to close in Brighton, another supplier will just take over, whether they are based in the UK or abraod, meaning that nothing was achieved apart from putting law abiding members of the public out of work - However i expect, the protesters real aims are not for a change in the law but just to make trouble and violence for the thrill of it (and under a banner that tries to give them a legitimate excuse for their actions)

So are you suggesting, by comparison, that the Albions campaign for Falmer took so long because they campaigned by sending letters and postcards to politicians, and held peace marches at the Liberal Democrat party conference? - Should the fans have been violent and intimidated the cleaners of the Grand Hotel (and other hotels) where the deligates were actually staying instead, or maybe even the company that made the ID passes that they wore at the conference? or even maybe the Police for providing the security of the venue?

Guy, its a perfectly sensible well argued debate. The only thing you have overlooked is that you can't reason with the sort of rubbish who take part in intimidating people with violent threats. They are scum. The sort of rubbish that the human rights legislation looks after while I'm busy paying their giros.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

OK, so where do all you 'violent scum' haters stand on the Goldstone protests? Which were certainly intimidatory if you were on the receiving end. Were they a force for good? Or for evil?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

OK, so where do all you 'violent scum' haters stand on the Goldstone protests? Which were certainly intimidatory if you were on the receiving end. Were they a force for good? Or for evil?

The targets of those campaigns by the protesters where against the clubs directors, (the ones behind the troubles at the club) and the FA (the ruling body) - not any old Tom Dick or Harry that had a tenuous link to the club like against the programme sellers or the turnstile operators, hounding them and work and at home, initimidating them despite their roles actually being for the good of the club



What truthfully did those protesters achieve?

Goldstone ground still our home ground - No
FA action that meant Archer and Co where forced out of the club - No
Kept the club in Brighton - No , had to go to Gillingham to play
Put off potential investor that may have brought out Archer and co, or where they seriously going to transform the club into one that had the facilities and could compete at the top level, but put off / forced out by the protests - Who knows?

It all depends on how you view it, did the club survive due to the protesters or due to the bring home the albion campaign, or the non protesting fans, or are we living on borrowed time and have we only delayed the inevitable, or did that campaign do any good?

And that could be argued about til the cows come home, with no real right answer to it because the truth is, no-one really knows.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I will venture that the police bill for such events is considerably less than you think.

Officers will get called in from all over the county- and sometimes beyond- but as far as possible, they take the resources from coppers who are on rest days, thus ensuring the towns have their normal cover. To add to that, the powers that be always ensure they notify the PCs about their cancelled rest days with the appropriate notice period, thus ensuring they don't get paid for the privilege.

I would also add, in the face of the inevitable letters to the Argus over the next week or so, citing "overreaction" from the police- we have to cater for the worst case scenario. If thousands of protestors turn up and cause mayhem and/or destruction, then we get slated. If only half the protestors bother to attend, then it looks like overkill.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't....I assure you that policing protests (IMHO anyway) is amongst the most boring elements of the job, and certainly not an experience to look forward to.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The trouble with 'defence contractors' is, it's invariably got nothing whatsoever to do with defence. It's a polite name for the weapons industry. They ATTACK people. and usually innocent people at that. When did North Vietnam ever threaten Amerika? What harm did Iraq ever do to us? Agreed, it's not very nice that a few dinner ladies at EDO feel scared to go to work, but that don't change the fact that EDO are unwelcome in our town. Other towns maybe, but that's up to those towns and their moral conscience

As someone that has worked in the defence industry that just shows you know f*** all about weapons. There are offense ones ( for attack ) and defensive ones ( for protection ). Lets not forget, EDO DON'T make the missle nor decide who it is fired at. Blaming EDO for innocent deaths is akin to blaming Ford for drink drivers killing people - shall we ban the car ? No of course not, that would be stupid !!!!

 

[skipper734]

It's O.K. now boys the Bogeys have gone back to Hampshire. Just had to follow three van loads back to Southampton at the legal speed limit.
Thanks to NSC I now know why they were on the A/M27. Sure I saw some licking action. Probably drooling at all the overtime.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

It's O.K. now boys the Bogeys have gone back to Hampshire. Just had to follow three van loads back to Southampton at the legal speed limit.
Thanks to NSC I now know why they were on the A/M27. Sure I saw some licking action. Probably drooling at all the overtime.

Do you not expect to get paid for the hours you work then?

If you read my post above, you'll find that most of the police on duty probably didn't get overtime anyway, but surely if they work additional hours, like anyone else, they're entitled to be paid?

 

[Barry Izbak]

OK, so where do all you 'violent scum' haters stand on the Goldstone protests? Which were certainly intimidatory if you were on the receiving end. Were they a force for good? Or for evil?

No crowd control barriers were thrown
No bricks and the like were thrown at the Old Bill
No intimidation of ordinary members of the public
No vindictive targetting of people other than the main protagonists

I'm proud to have been a part of it. I'm proud it was so peaceful, well organised and recognised as such. I'm offended that anyone would liken that campaign to the violence metered out periodically to members of the public at this Brighton factory.

 

[LockStock]

I have been reading this story with great intrest for a few reasons;

1. The protest went past my house
2. It held my day up as the traffic was almost at a stand still
3. I was intrested to read why the were protesting.

the only thing ive been able to see is that most of the 'peaceful protesters' are a bunch of soap dodging pissed up violent idiots!! i took the time to read all of the comments and even looked on there websites and watched there own video's, where they are praise the provication of the police!

i understand why people would be unhappy about this company opperating but the people most inconvienced are normal people going about there normal lifes.
next time these tax dodging idots try protesting i hope the police stop them in there tracks!

 

[cannedheat]

No crowd control barriers were thrown
No bricks and the like were thrown at the Old Bill
No intimidation of ordinary members of the public
No vindictive targetting of people other than the main protagonists

I'm proud to have been a part of it. I'm proud it was so peaceful, well organised and recognised as such. I'm offended that anyone would liken that campaign to the violence metered out periodically to members of the public at this Brighton factory.

Spoken like a gentleman

 

[maffew]

Do you not expect to get paid for the hours you work then?

If you read my post above, you'll find that most of the police on duty probably didn't get overtime anyway, but surely if they work additional hours, like anyone else, they're entitled to be paid?

leaving work they were all charging round the corner, didnt even indicate! shocking

 

[skipper734]

Do you not expect to get paid for the hours you work then?

If you read my post above, you'll find that most of the police on duty probably didn't get overtime anyway, but surely if they work additional hours, like anyone else, they're entitled to be paid?


No No Edna I Wasn't having a go. I do drool at overtime, its wedgetastic.

 

[Taybha]

ive done my hair ..so how much 4 the dog ??

 

[larus]

The trouble with 'defence contractors' is, it's invariably got nothing whatsoever to do with defence. It's a polite name for the weapons industry. They ATTACK people. and usually innocent people at that. When did North Vietnam ever threaten Amerika? What harm did Iraq ever do to us? Agreed, it's not very nice that a few dinner ladies at EDO feel scared to go to work, but that don't change the fact that EDO are unwelcome in our town. Other towns maybe, but that's up to those towns and their moral conscience

That's hypocritical.

Defence contractors/ arms manufacturers/ suppliers of 'tools of death'. Choose your own term to portray whatever view you have on this industry.

Whatever you term them as, you can't say "I want to keep the armed forces" and then say, "I don't approve of the making of military equipment".

I asked, do you want to keep our armed forces.

 

[beorhthelm]

these sort of protestors at first make my blood boil, then make me sad that we live in a society where people have nothing better to do all day.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Is this all just the new football hooliganism. A feeble excuse to get pissed up, be intimdating and get in a ruck.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

The trouble with 'defence contractors' is, it's invariably got nothing whatsoever to do with defence. It's a polite name for the weapons industry. They ATTACK people. and usually innocent people at that. When did North Vietnam ever threaten Amerika? What harm did Iraq ever do to us? Agreed, it's not very nice that a few dinner ladies at EDO feel scared to go to work, but that don't change the fact that EDO are unwelcome in our town. Other towns maybe, but that's up to those towns and their moral conscience

Can't argue with the Vietnam or Iraq examples. I can however argue that issues in Afganistan, Serbia (in the instance of European security) threaten us, and issues in certain African and Central American countries threaten innocent people involved, if not directly us. Its the same weapons deployed. Blame the people that choose where they are deployed.