[Politics] Lloyd Russell-Moyle

[happypig]

I don't agree with your analysis. The hard left in Labour genuinely believe the clause 4 narrative is the destiny of Labour. They are not hiding within it. The hard right in the tory party probably have a similar (albeit 180 degrees to the right) outlook on their destiny.

The far left and right are traditionally splitters. I recall there being more than 50 Marxist organizations in the UK at one point. Most of them now gravitate to the SWP. The far right also seem to invent a new vehicle every few years - NF, BNP . . . the Brexit party, whatever Farage aligns with today (can't remember the name - Rummage perhaps?).

It isn't easy to get into power unseen, unless you attempt to deselect a sitting MP (like Labour's extremists used to do). And if you do that the stooge will likely lose his seat in the next election. Nobody likes a carpetbagger.

No. The reality is that nutters in nut-case parties are kept out by FPTP. You may not like it, but it is a fact.

There’s an average of 70k voters per constituency. If there’s more than 70k Marxists (or Britain Firsts or Judean People’s Front) then FPTP is denying them representation.
Why is your a-bit-left-of-centre representation more important than theirs just because you don’t like them ?
The Lib-Dems, Greens and whatever the f*** Ukip calls itself these days are under-represented and a vote for any of them is often wasted (as my Labour votes have been in Eastbourne in the past).

 

[Wardy's twin]

Why? If I were at work and a claim of, say, sexual harassment (of which there's no indication here, to be clear, just an example) was brought against me and I had to be suspended, I sure as hell wouldn't want everyone knowing about it until due process was followed. I certainly wouldn't expect my boss to share the details either.

because we should make the decision whether he should remain on the ballot . If it's something bad it will come out anyway, if it's trivial then he should be allowed to continue. Really think the timing of this stinks and to make it clear I am not a fan of his, don't know him at all although have spoken to him once and he seemed to be quite sensible.

 

[Weststander]

There’s an average of 70k voters per constituency. If there’s more than 70k Marxists (or Britain Firsts or Judean People’s Front) then FPTP is denying them representation.
Why is your a-bit-left-of-centre representation more important than theirs just because you don’t like them ?
The Lib-Dems, Greens and whatever the f*** Ukip calls itself these days are under-represented and a vote for any of them is often wasted (as my Labour votes have been in Eastbourne in the past).

It’s a difficult one. Far left and right racists, for example, would get into Westminster through lists. Corbyn in 2019 could’ve selected some of the characters who’d deserted other parties and were trying (literally) to bully decent folk such as Peter Kyle out. Anti semites from the left and right, assorted other racists, Putin apologists. The link broken with one MP to a constituency, who can make sure they get nowhere near the Commons and if they do, they’re booted out.

Is there a system out there that prevents this?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There’s an average of 70k voters per constituency. If there’s more than 70k Marxists (or Britain Firsts or Judean People’s Front) then FPTP is denying them representation.
Why is your a-bit-left-of-centre representation more important than theirs just because you don’t like them ?
The Lib-Dems, Greens and whatever the f*** Ukip calls itself these days are under-represented and a vote for any of them is often wasted (as my Labour votes have been in Eastbourne in the past).

It isn't more important and it is not 'mine'. It is the representation of a majority in some constituencies. As for those who don't get 'representation', they are too few to constitute a relevant minority so thy don't win any seats.

Do I care? I don't want Marxists and Fascists having a say in parliament. So.... no I don't care.

If the Lib dems and Greens were more popular they would win more votes and seats. In Brighton I gather a Green MP is not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

because we should make the decision whether he should remain on the ballot . If it's something bad it will come out anyway, if it's trivial then he should be allowed to continue. Really think the timing of this stinks and to make it clear I am not a fan of his, don't know him at all although have spoken to him once and he seemed to be quite sensible.

Sounding sensible is thankfully not used to determine guilt. As noted above the appropriate process has been followed.

 

[happypig]

It isn't more important and it is not 'mine'. It is the representation of a majority in some constituencies. As for those who don't get 'representation', they are too few to constitute a relevant minority so thy don't win any seats.

Do I care? I don't want Marxists and Fascists having a say in parliament. So.... no I don't care.

If the Lib dems and Greens were more popular they would win more votes and seats. In Brighton I gather a Green MP is not beyond the realms of possibility.

The Lib dems got 11% of the vote in 2019 but only got 11 seats, they should have got 75. The Greens should have got 27.
The tories got 43% of the votes but got 56% of seats.
The SNP only got under 4% of the votes but bagged a whopping 48 seats.

FPTP doesn’t reward popularity.

 

[Seaview Seagull]

It isn't more important and it is not 'mine'. It is the representation of a majority in some constituencies. As for those who don't get 'representation', they are too few to constitute a relevant minority so thy don't win any seats.

Do I care? I don't want Marxists and Fascists having a say in parliament. So.... no I don't care.

If the Lib dems and Greens were more popular they would win more votes and seats. In Brighton I gather a Green MP is not beyond the realms of possibility.

Harry I normally agree with what you say but not on this. The problem for the minority parties (of all kinds) is that their votes are spread across many constituencies so their vote share is not reflected in seat numbers. It is possible to design a proportional system which allows for some constituency representation but evens out the anomalies over the top. In a democracy Parliament should reflect the votes of the people fairly not give artificial victory to one group.

 

[timbha]

Labour announce Chris Ward as LRM’s replacement. Starmer’s PR adviser. Local lad??

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harry I normally agree with what you say but not on this. The problem for the minority parties (of all kinds) is that their votes are spread across many constituencies so their vote share is not reflected in seat numbers. It is possible to design a proportional system which allows for some constituency representation but evens out the anomalies over the top. In a democracy Parliament should reflect the votes of the people fairly not give artificial victory to one group.

Well, if I were a Green, Liberal, Marxist or Fascist I would agree with you.

Perhaps if I were the type of Labour man who thought it would be 'nice' to let Jeremy be on the leadership ballot all those years ago, I would agree with you.

But..... I want to see a party I quite like with a working majority that means it can get the sort of thing I quite like, done.

Maybe trial PR in council seats and see how it works out? If it is a winner, then I may be persuaded out of my complacency. But it seems to me the middle will always end up in hock to the extremists in the coalition.

Right now, FPTP gets the Tories out of power. Job done. However with PR I can see the b'stards flattering the liberals into a coalition again. Or forming a glorious coalition with Farage and the other nut jobs, like Netanyahu has done in Israel.

Not for me....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The Lib dems got 11% of the vote in 2019 but only got 11 seats, they should have got 75. The Greens should have got 27.
The tories got 43% of the votes but got 56% of seats.
The SNP only got under 4% of the votes but bagged a whopping 48 seats.

FPTP doesn’t reward popularity.

Not popular enough.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Good riddance. Think he is a bit of an arse, and as much as I sometimes agree with him, he clearly is too far left for the current centrist Labour Party. They are rightly making moves to get rid of those who may be a disruptive influence, just like those on the harder right of the Tory party, but the Tory party are too scared of them. Idiots.

 

[ROSM]

In your expert opinion do you think the Police at some stage will be involved in the investigation of this allegation in addition to the party’s investigation at some point?

I honestly don't know. I don't know the allegations.

 

[ROSM]

You're unaware of members/volunteers who adore Platt, who dislike him and his brand of Labour? It's not united local party, well documented when attempts were made to get Kyle and other moderates shunted to one side. Some of those doing this were 'converts' to Labour in the last ten years, opportunists who previously had been members of extreme parties. Local news also covered this.

You can like someone without disliking someone else..the people I know and align to value a labour mp above an unsuccessfully labour candidate.

The potential removal of kyle was a momentum move. In my view LRM has bridged the gap between momentum and labour successfully

 

[Wardy's twin]

Sounding sensible is thankfully not used to determine guilt. As noted above the appropriate process has been followed.

The comment about being sensible was only there to counter the image of him being a mace waving nutcase. As I said I think the timing stinks and I am of a centre left persuasion

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The comment about being sensible was only there to counter the image of him being a mace waving nutcase. As I said I think the timing stinks and I am of a centre left persuasion

The timing may have been precipitated by Sunk's panic call for a GE.

We shall see what transpires,

Politics is a funny old game, and I am the last person I would have confidence in were I to consult myself about the political impact of .... er, anything. That sadly is not enough to stop me offering an opinion.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Labour announce Chris Ward as LRM’s replacement. Starmer’s PR adviser. Local lad??

Yes, local, but not a favourite of the left to be sure

 

[fork me]

Are you suggesting that when Lloyd Russell-Moyle announced this suspension and said "I wish Keir Starmer, Angela Rayner, and the Labour team the best of luck and hope to be celebrating Labour wins across Sussex and beyond on election night", that he was actually lying

I don't think he was lying, I like Lloyd, but I'll vote for the guy Labour have selected because the other alternative is a Tory and we need to get rid of them. Lloyd is doing things right, whether his dismissal was fair or not, he still wants Labour to win, so wishing them luck is not lying whatever his personal circumstances.

I used to be a member of the Portslade Branch of the Party and was on the executive committee of Hove Constituency Labour Party for a few years, you don't become unsupportive because your chosen candidate isn't the one selected. I was there when Ivor Caplain finally took Hove from the Tories for the first time ever. I knew Ivor well, had campaigned with him previously in Council Elections (I was even campaign manager for his ward one year). He wasn't my first choice of candidate (but would have been my second), but he won in a fair democratic vote and so I supported and campaigned for him. He made a good MP as well.

Lloyd has been unselected undemocratically, but he still wants a Labour victory.

 

[fork me]

Yes, local, but not a favourite of the left to be sure

The problem with his advice to vote Green is that the Greens don't stand a chance in Kemp Town. Lots of people voting Green will just split the vote and get the Tories in.

I don't like Chris Ward as a candidate but I will reluctantly vote for him because I like the Tory alternative a LOT less.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The problem with his advice to vote Green is that the Greens don't stand a chance in Kemp Town. Lots of people voting Green will just split the vote and get the Tories in.

I don't like Chris Ward as a candidate but I will reluctantly vote for him because I like the Tory alternative a LOT less.

Owen Jones would prefer the Tory to get in. It suits his nasty agenda. He wants the smallest Labour majority possible so his lot still have a say on the left. In effect, he is working night and day for the Tories. He is one of their best election weapons.

 

[de la zouch]

Yes, local, but not a favourite of the left to be sure

Owen Jones now dislikes him, his stock has instantly risen.