[Football] Liverpool and Manchester United lead ‘European League’ breakout league idea

[Seasider78]

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Even if they back down from it they signed up and keep pushing it and these clowns need to be hounded out of the game. As our statement and UEFA have said this is a consistent push from these clubs and needs stamping on

 

[jimhigham]

And so it begins.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-city-have-super-league-doubts-says-executive

Good. Hope there’s some truth in this. It does seem to tally with the suggestion that Chelsea and Manchester City were presented with something of a fait accompli.

If this goes ahead, we could see a very interesting battle of big business versus supporters. The ESL will doubtless come with a plethora of official sponsors. I’d very gladly commit to doing my utmost to ensure I never gave one of them so much as a penny. I could easily imagine a coordinated boycott of sponsors. This has the potential to become one of the largest consumer led fights ever seen.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

thats fine.

We'll see how it plays out.

I'd love them to get kicked out the league. Just cant see it as the league need them. The statement later may tell us more

Does the league need them? Yesterday I thought yes, today I'm not so sure.

If the ESL happens and they stay in the Premier League, what does it look like? The race for the top 4 stops mattering, because the teams that will finish there have already qualified. The big six will be so rich, with such amazing squads of players, that they are pretty much guaranteed to finish top 6 for ever. (things are competitive now because the Premier league riches have spread around and teams like Leicester have caught up - ESL means big 6 pull away again). So the excitement and competition has gone. Moreover, the teams competing for the title are also competing for the ESL title - the ESL will have the media focus, the clubs and ultimately their fans attention.

Most importantly, the media money will be spent on the ESL rights. The premier league rights will have value in the UK, but their value completely crashes in the Far East, the US, South Asia, everywhere except on these islands and even here less money will be spent on the rights. The value of commercial contracts drops accordingly, as do benefits from the remaining European competitions. The biggest source of income thus becomes selling players to ESL clubs, further driving a divide.

So without a competitive league, media focus, European qualification, or money - why does the league need these clubs? If we're poorer and not competitive with them, let's choose poorer and more competitive without them.

The only caveat is that if the rest of us force the issue, they're gone and gone for good. The best outcome is they stay and the ESL disappears. If they are booted out they start up and it will be a success, financially at least, and the likes of Everton, Leeds and Newcastle will join when the opportunity arises. So its a delicate balancing act.

 

[clapham_gull]

Man City have their "reputation" to deal with and Chelsea, well there is the pitch owners association.

Not surprised they are breaking ranks.

However rich and powerful these six there, let's not forget the other clubs are owned by some individuals with some very deep pockets and their own interests.

With the threat of enforced UK Government sanctions (including fan ownership) - they aren't gonna roll over.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

There was a good article in the Athletic yesterday pointing out that the current format is broken and something will need to happen to correct that assuming the ESL fails to go ahead. It mentioned how currently the same teams have been winning the major leagues for the last decade and will continue to grow faster than any of the other clubs. The whole purpose of the pyramid is with the best teams being promoted and the worst relegated each division maintains a competitive average. This has been undermined by the fact the top Prem teams don't get promoted so just keep growing bigger and bigger. The only real fix is wages caps etc so level the playing field

 

[The Fifth Column]

Good. Hope there’s some truth in this. It does seem to tally with the suggestion that Chelsea and Manchester City were presented with something of a fait accompli.

If this goes ahead, we could see a very interesting battle of big business versus supporters. The ESL will doubtless come with a plethora of official sponsors. I’d very gladly commit to doing my utmost to ensure I never gave one of them so much as a penny. I could easily imagine a coordinated boycott of sponsors. This has the potential to become one of the largest consumer led fights ever seen.

It'll be massive list to try and avoid:

Man Utd alone has the following sponsors/partners:- Chevrolet, Adidas, AON, Kohler (Water), Aeroflot, Apollo Tyres, Cadbury, Canon, Casillero del Diablo (wine), Chivas (Whiskey), DHL, Gulf Oil, HCL (?), Konami, Maui Jim (?), Marriott Hotels, Melitta coffee, MLily (mattresses and pillows ffs), Remington, Swissquote, TAG Heuer, Visit Malta & Yabo Sports.

Be interesting for someone to contact every sponsor/partner of every scab6 club and find out the corporate views. We all know it would amount to a non-commital bland generic response of course but it wouldn't hurt to start applying pressure to the sponsors.

 

[Stato]

And yet Americans think the opposite. They definitely think that 'soccer' would be improved by Americanisation . But, as you say, the facts don't seem to bear this out

It's horses for courses. American mass audience sports developed much later than most European mass audience sports and the dynamic nature of football is a problem for their broadcasters. Also, broadly speaking, American culture has been more dominated by the market and as, as a result of its demands, more often promotes artifacts that provide instant gratification. A lot of European culture developed centuries earlier, in times that were less fast paced. As such its audiences better understand the increased gratification that can come from the build up and release of tension.

The problem has always been that most attempts at trying to establish the sport in their country have been inclined to make football more like what their audiences are used to. Misunderstanding that its USP from a broadcaster's point of view is that it is totally different to what their audiences are used to. There always seems to be an imperative for American producers of culture to want to tailor the artifacts to an imagined 'middle America' audience despite a century of evidence that this audience is not a homogeneous mass that knows what it wants before it sees it. Pink Floyd are one of the biggest rock bands ever in America and they are the virtual opposite of everything that those who sell culture imagine their audience wants.

However, America's big four sports have one huge advantage over MLS and its predecessors and that is an organically developed history and associated fan culture. The proposals that these owners have put forward involve an unconscious attempt to parachute the existing European fan culture and history into American cultural landscape. I say unconscious, because these idiots do not understand that their proposals will kill what they don't know they are selling. They think its about the players. Football has never been about the players. Players come and go. You show a US audience an incredible goal that wins a Champions League final and they'll hardly care. You may as well be showing them a golf shot. You show them a European City being taken over by ecstatic fans as a result and they'll empathise, understand and want to know more.

Broadcasters selling football are not selling the skills of players. They are selling dreams of ultimate triumph to those who may have little chance of experiencing such feelings themselves. If the shared experience is stripped away and the jeopardy that creates the triumph is stripped away, it is utterly meaningless.

 

[Jim in the West]

Perez says that he wants fans all over the world to enjoy the product. Logically this initially means kick-off times to suit the Far East and US markets (but given the ESL is supposed to be a mid-week league, this may be tricky). After a bit matches will actually be moved to more "suitable" venues - Dubai, Singapore, New York. Players will be knackered, so the ESL teams will need their reserves to play in the EPL at the weekend. But then, logically, there is no need to base the club in Manchester or London. It makes no sense to have 3 teams in London, 2 in Madrid, 3 in the North West of England, 2 in Milan, etc. So, "Red Devils United" will be re-sited to Shanghai, Arsenal will end up in Chicago, etc, etc.

There is absolutely NO WAY that the ESL thing will work whilst the Big Six are still part of the EPL. The UEFA president was right - they are either "in" (the current structures) or "out". No half-ways.

It's funny...I can see why the US owners of the English clubs like the idea (and possibly Spurs given how insanely debt-ridden they are) - but for the likes of Man City and Chelsea it seems odd. They don't need the money. If they reject the ESL, then the EPL has got HUGE leverage over the other four.

 

[Jim in the West]

Man City have their "reputation" to deal with and Chelsea, well there is the pitch owners association.

Not surprised they are breaking ranks.

Yes - the Pitch Owners thing is really interesting. As far as I understand it they HAVE to play their games at Stamford Bridge, and if they don't they can't call themselves Chelsea. There may be other hurdles as well.

 

[mikeyjh]

It'll be massive list to try and avoid:

Man Utd alone has the following sponsors/partners:- Chevrolet, Adidas, AON, Kohler (Water), Aeroflot, Apollo Tyres, Cadbury, Canon, Casillero del Diablo (wine), Chivas (Whiskey), DHL, Gulf Oil, HCL (?), Konami, Maui Jim (?), Marriott Hotels, Melitta coffee, MLily (mattresses and pillows ffs), Remington, Swissquote, TAG Heuer, Visit Malta & Yabo Sports.

Be interesting for someone to contact every sponsor/partner of every scab6 club and find out the corporate views. We all know it would amount to a non-commital bland generic response of course but it wouldn't hurt to start applying pressure to the sponsors.

The problem is that you're seeing things from the perspective of someone from the UK who happens to be a football fan and one who supports a team in the PL who happens not the be in that group of 6 - There are many more people in the world (obviously) who don't fall in to those categories, that's who the corporate brands will be listening to.....

 

[clapham_gull]

Yes - the Pitch Owners thing is really interesting. As far as I understand it they HAVE to play their games at Stamford Bridge, and if they don't they can't call themselves Chelsea. There may be other hurdles as well.

Yes, the pitch owners also own the name of the club.

The Chelsea Supporters' Trust are also up in arms and tonight's game will see a protest and the removal of fan banners from the stadium.

https://chelseasupporterstrust.com/15559-join-the-trust-and-get-your-voice-heard-by-the-club/

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[Billy in Bristol]

One other benefit of the ESL they need referees.

Has anybody bothered to find out who is going to officiate these matches? I suspect that they will recruit and create their own panel...off you pop Mike Dean?

 

[jimhigham]

It'll be massive list to try and avoid:

Man Utd alone has the following sponsors/partners:- Chevrolet, Adidas, AON, Kohler (Water), Aeroflot, Apollo Tyres, Cadbury, Canon, Casillero del Diablo (wine), Chivas (Whiskey), DHL, Gulf Oil, HCL (?), Konami, Maui Jim (?), Marriott Hotels, Melitta coffee, MLily (mattresses and pillows ffs), Remington, Swissquote, TAG Heuer, Visit Malta & Yabo Sports.

Be interesting for someone to contact every sponsor/partner of every scab6 club and find out the corporate views. We all know it would amount to a non-commital bland generic response of course but it wouldn't hurt to start applying pressure to the sponsors.

Not flying Aeroflot shouldn’t pose a problem.

Canon could prove much harder given my photography work

 

[Stato]

74 year old ESL President, Florentino Perez, claiming....

"Young people are no longer interested in football.

I wonder what has given him this impression. His German counterparts like Bayern Munich, that has a cheapest matchday ticket that is less than half the price of Real's are not saying this.

He's like the Selfish Giant from Oscar Wilde's children's story.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Watching an expert on football finance on BBC sport talking about the losses being experienced by some EPL clubs as being unsustainable. He also said you are seeing the Americanisation of UK football, and those owners know that the concepts of promotion and relegation are completely alien to the average American fan of the big 3 US sports. So to them forming a closed shop with the ESL is a natural progression for the burgeoning US market for football. Although I know quite a few American friends who have seen the excitement and despair which is generated by promotion and relegation in English football and would like to see it introduced in MLS

 

[The Fifth Column]

Not flying Aeroflot shouldn’t pose a problem.

Canon could prove much harder given my photography work

You might be ok, Its Canon Medical Systems, same company but different part of it.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Watching an expert on football finance on BBC sport talking about the losses being experienced by some EPL clubs as being unsustainable. He also said you are seeing the Americanisation of UK football, and those owners know that the concepts of promotion and relegation are completely alien to the average American fan of the big 3 US sports. So to them forming a closed shop with the ESL is a natural progression for the burgeoning US market for football. Although I know quite a few American friends who have seen the excitement and despair which is generated by promotion and relegation in English football and would like to see it introduced in MLS

Was he a BEARDED DULLARD?

 

[The Fifth Column]

One other benefit of the ESL they need referees.

Has anybody bothered to find out who is going to officiate these matches? I suspect that they will recruit and create their own panel...off you pop Mike Dean?

I asked the same thing in another thread. I think they will end up paying a lot of money and poaching officials perhaps leading to a shortage of experienced officials in certain countries who will likely be banned from officiating elsewhere if they succumb to the ESL greed.

 

[blue-shifted]

I asked the same thing in another thread. I think they will end up paying a lot of money and poaching officials perhaps leading to a shortage of experienced officials in certain countries who will likely be banned from officiating elsewhere if they succumb to the ESL greed.

Yeh, getting officials will be easy enough. They'll just double their existing wages and they'll go

 

[SeagullinExile]

Even if they back down from it they signed up and keep pushing it and these clowns need to be hounded out of the game. As our statement and UEFA have said this is a consistent push from these clubs and needs stamping on

Absolutely. Even if they pull out of a ESL, they should be docked points for bringing the game into disrepute..or something like that. The PL should hammer them with whatever they can.