[Football] Liverpool and Manchester United lead ‘European League’ breakout league idea

[Jim in the West]

This cannot and must not be allowed to happen!


Without the involvement of Leeds United, otherwise it is totally meaningless.
Leeds fans must be in a state of total bewilderment that they are not leading the charge on this league.

In all seriousness, I would expect Leeds fans to be almost unanimously against the ESL. They can be a bit of an acquired taste, but the ones I've met are genuine footy fans. I find myself desperately hoping they beat Liverpool tonight!

 

[Swansman]

I see UEFA are delaying the announcement regarding the venues for Euro 2020....saying three possible venues may be excluded. Well, there's one venue in England, one in Spain, and one in Italy. I wonder if it's those three...?

"Uefa will take a final call on the status of Munich, Bilbao and Dublin as host cities for the 2020 European Championship on Friday after the venues could not guarantee spectator attendance."

 

[Silverhatch]

In all seriousness, I would expect Leeds fans to be almost unanimously against the ESL. They can be a bit of an acquired taste, but the ones I've met are genuine footy fans. I find myself desperately hoping they beat Liverpool tonight!

Every club is majority fed by decent football fans. It appears that the (99%) vast swathe of real big-six fans have been vitriolic in their hate for this concept. I still want Leeds and us to smash Liverpool and Chelsea. If the players don't like it, perhaps they might throw both games!

 

[jimhigham]

It's a terrible piece of fence-sitting PR puff.

But the definition of 'mealy mouthed' to me was Gary Lineker on five live earlier. I wonder if someone has had words after the reactions from the pundits on MoTD last night.

I missed that. That’s disappointing. Can you offer a summary?

 

[raymondo]

Well I certainly hope so. I am eagerly anticipating what they have to say about it.

They will probably be polite and neutral, like Tuchel, because if they criticise they will probably lose their jobs.

 

[raymondo]

With extra games required for the ESL, if the teams are not kicked out of local Premier Leagues by their country FAs (and, despite the rhetoric, I'm not sure they will be), I would enjoy seeing groups of tired players, with mounting injuries (sorry guys, nothing personal) and then hopefully these 'Super' teams will slip down their local leagues - would be some justice.

 

[crodonilson]

PL call a meeting tomorrow with the remaining 14 clubs to work out how to respond to this. The 'big 6' are not included. Nice

I wouldn't get too excited, how many of the other 14 clubs are foreign owned?? They're all in it for money and/or vanity, they need the big 6 clubs and if they owned one of the big 6 clubs they'd be doing exactly the same. I certainly don't see expulsion from the league being an option as they would all lose many millions off the values of their clubs.

 

[peterward]

With extra games required for the ESL, if the teams are not kicked out of local Premier Leagues by their country FAs (and, despite the rhetoric, I'm not sure they will be), I would enjoy seeing groups of tired players, with mounting injuries (sorry guys, nothing personal) and then hopefully these 'Super' teams will slip down their local leagues - would be some justice.

It wont be like that though, the dirty dozen...... if they were allowed get away with this theft and have their pipe dream of still being allowed to play in their domestic leagues............. They would start to treat the Premier/La Liga/Serie A in the same way the top clubs these days treat the league cup and earlier rounds of FA cup.... it would reserves/kids playing the likes of us, saving the stars for the upcoming plastic super cup games

 

[brighton_tom]

Once the initial shock of this dies down I think people will realise how unfeasible this all is. You could not have world where a team competes in the PL, ESL, CL, FA Cup, and League Cup. Its an unworkable amount of fixtures. So therefor a team like United/City/Chelsea/Liverpool who finishes in the top 4 & is one of these founding ESL members would have to pick which European tournament they want to be involved in. If they pick the ESL does that mean the teams places 5-8 get into the CL? There is no way the Premier League would allow that to be how things happened. The only other alternative is these teams having massive squads to accommodate playing in all competitions, which also wouldnt be allowed. It just doesnt work for them to all co-exist. So.... it will either be that this ESL idea gets scrapped, or you have teams/players booted out of the Prem/CL and all other UEFA comps so they can piss of to their ESL. But what player wants to only be involved in that and not any of the other competitions?

I feel like the big teams know its unfeasible, know it wont happen, but also know the Prem wont really want to lose them so are just using it as a bargaining tool. They're hoping the PL and UEFA ask them to stay & end up offering them more money to do so.

 

[Postman Pat]

UEFA's Champions League isnt just going to concede and disappear so how would this ever logistically work. A team cant compete in both midweek games for ESL and CL. If a team finishes top 4 of the PL so then qualifies for the CL, but doesnt take up their place because they want to focus on the ESL does that mean teams 5 to 8 in the Prem have the chance of taking up the CL places. There is no way the organisations will be able to agree on how this could work. The only outcome is that either this all gets scrapped or teams leave the Prem entirely to play in the ESL.

I guess the expectation is that the CL and Europa League would become the 'qualifier' for the Superleague, with 5 places to fill it could be the last 4 in the CL and the winner of the Europa League get a one season invite.

Assuming that the PL and CL stay otherwise the same, I would guess that the Premier League would lose a lot of European places as we would already have 6 automatically qualify, so highest non-ESL team into CL and one other into Europa. Helps the greedy six maintain their financial monopoly over other Premier league plebs.

 

[Jim D]

Is there anywhere with details of how this ESL would work? Is it like the UCL where these 12 teams are always in it and others like Bayern and PSG join in depending on their finishing positions? What about this season, as an example? If Leicester and West Ham finish in the top 4 would they also have a place - making 8 PL teams in the ESL? If this is how it will work then I think it could be really bad for those 'big 12' teams that aren't playing well and, with a guaranteed ESL place, have no incentive to pick up their performances. In fact, I could see one of these PL teams (perhaps Arsenal) dropping into a relegation position knowing that they'll be in the ESL again next year - they won't even need to win the Europa League to qualify through the back door.
Also, is it actually going to be a league - where everyone plays each other twice and you get points, or will it be like the UCL first phase and then progress to a knockout? And if it's a knockout what will happen in Feb onwards when teams start getting knocked out?

Too many questions to say where the real drawbacks are, but it certainly looks like there are plenty.

 

[lawros left foot]

I think I read somewhere that PL member clubs could not compete in competitions that are NOT. sanctioned by EUFA or FIFA.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

In theory, yes. But the problem is that the TV revenue would drop off a cliff if the greedy 6 left.

That's shortsighted.

Not sure how old you are but I like many remember the likes of Aston Villa, Leeds, Everton, Newcastle, Nottingham Forest and Derby being far far better than Man City, Chelsea, Tottenham (hahahaha) and Arsenal. Let them go and these clubs will take over the mantel, all have far more heritage, won more and all have great fanbases.

Give it a few years and these pricks will be forgotten.

Ban them now, today.

Tonight Leeds and Tomorrow Brighton should just sit down the moment the whistle is blown for the the start of the game.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Those big 6 would be replaced by others, who would start winning the titles. There would still be a champions league, with big clubs from around Europe competing to win the top title and I'd pay to see it.

The money might be reduced at the start, so players would get paid a bit less. So what? I expect the money would build back up again, as the leagues would be competitive (domestic and European).

Remember that these big 6 clubs haven't always been the big 6. Man City weren't even in the top division not long ago, and Chelsea were nothing until Roman came along. And Spurs - well I guess they never won anything anyway, so nothing would change for them. There are still plenty of well supported clubs in this country, and removing 6 would allow others to grow too.

If it were to happen, and they had to leave the PL, I'd ignore them and continue going to watch Brighton. If, however, they started this new league and were allowed to remain in the PL, I'd stop watching football altogether.

I like the idea of just resetting without them, and then the leagues become more competitive in time, the idea that we can all forget about these six teams and create a new football order without them.

But.

Right now the biggest enemy of the new ESL is the fans of those six clubs. They're not happy, they are going to protest and march and make the owners lives miserable. They are, by and large, the most numerous groups of fans in the country and their voice might decide what will happen. I think if the premier league goes too far, just kicks these clubs out altogether in haste, there could be some kind of backlash, these fans might en masse decide to support their teams in the ESL because they've been rejected by the premier league. They might back the punishment in the short-term but if the exclusion is permanent, well Arsenal and Liverpool will still be their team, when the protests stop that is where they will get their footbal fix. Kids will grow up in Manchester and north London knowing only of the ESL and not of the controversy. If the ESL teams have a big fanbase supporting them in the stadiums and out, the media will have to cover them and the ESL becomes strong.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I like the idea of just resetting without them, and then the leagues become more competitive in time, the idea that we can all forget about these six teams and create a new football order without them.

But.

Right now the biggest enemy of the new ESL is the fans of those six clubs. They're not happy, they are going to protest and march and make the owners lives miserable. They are, by and large, the most numerous groups of fans in the country and their voice might decide what will happen. I think if the premier league goes too far, just kicks these clubs out altogether in haste, there could be some kind of backlash, these fans might en masse decide to support their teams in the ESL because they've been rejected by the premier league. They might back the punishment in the short-term but if the exclusion is permanent, well Arsenal and Liverpool will still be their team, when the protests stop that is where they will get their footbal fix. Kids will grow up in Manchester and north London knowing only of the ESL and not of the controversy. If the ESL teams have a big fanbase supporting them in the stadiums and out, the media will have to cover them and the ESL becomes strong.

Sorry but these fans have enjoyed the fruits of the riches from these arses and suck up to the money so sorry do I feel for them, not really, a lot less than the Bury supporters.

 

[Swansman]

Sorry but these fans have enjoyed the fruits of the riches from these arses and suck up to the money so sorry do I feel for them, not really, a lot less than the Bury supporters.

But all of these teams got some real, genuine fans as well who followed their teams in bad times as well. They dont deserve the (often in their case local) clubs they've followed for 50 years to turn into these monstrous "things".

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I like the idea of just resetting without them, and then the leagues become more competitive in time, the idea that we can all forget about these six teams and create a new football order without them.

But.

Right now the biggest enemy of the new ESL is the fans of those six clubs. They're not happy, they are going to protest and march and make the owners lives miserable. They are, by and large, the most numerous groups of fans in the country and their voice might decide what will happen. I think if the premier league goes too far, just kicks these clubs out altogether in haste, there could be some kind of backlash, these fans might en masse decide to support their teams in the ESL because they've been rejected by the premier league. They might back the punishment in the short-term but if the exclusion is permanent, well Arsenal and Liverpool will still be their team, when the protests stop that is where they will get their footbal fix. Kids will grow up in Manchester and north London knowing only of the ESL and not of the controversy. If the ESL teams have a big fanbase supporting them in the stadiums and out, the media will have to cover them and the ESL becomes strong.

Quite and if it succeeded more teams might just quit and join.

It will end up with Super League div 2 etc.

Chairman have to weigh up losing them and a large chunk of the TV money V putting up with them in the league.

Whilst Bloom is a fan, I’m not sure he wants to bankroll the club

 

[Springal]

I think I read somewhere that PL member clubs could not compete in competitions that are NOT. sanctioned by EUFA or FIFA.

Yep its in the Premier League rules. Unclear at which point that rule is broken though? I.e is it signing up or actually playing

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

But all of these teams got some real, genuine fans as well who followed their teams in bad times as well. They dont deserve the (often in their case local) clubs they've followed for 50 years to turn into these monstrous "things".

What bad times, none, I repeat NONE have had to fight at all for their club so sorry if they don't like it start a new club.

Only a few Man Utd fans have ever complained and done something about it but all the others have gloried in the money thrown at them so sympathy forget it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I think they will

Remember they stand to lose their cash cow, the Champions League, or have it populated with the likes of Leicester which nobody will watch.

UEFA have no choice at all but to make a stand.

FIFA have less incentive but don't want to hand over the reigns of power in the game to American financiers

They do, but they stand to lose everything if they stop players playing internationals.

It’s not just the finals, How do you sell even more pointless internationals - friendlies/qualifiers etc.