[Politics] Liberal SJW professor owned by smart conservative student (and Milo)

[larus]

Some very good points made.

Don't come on here much anymore - I got fed up with the arguments and abuse on the Brexit thread. So, it was quite odd (on a random viewing on here) to see some notifications.

It's amazing reading back some of this thread at the way certain posters feign innocence over abuse (calling people thick, racist, etc.), but then go to the Brexit thread and accuse all Brexit voters as being racist,/thick/xenophobic (or saying that all racists voted leave).

Well, IMO, Teresa May in her time as home secretary exhibited racist tendencies/policies, yet she voted remain and tried her best to stymie Brexit, so I think we can safely call that argument busted too.

 

[The_Viper]

From my experience (in the wider world and on NSC) it’s usually a case of white, middle class men who hold this delusion that they can say anything they want and not get called on it. The kind of people who usually start sentences with “I’m not racist but...”

Your experience in the wider world is horribly limited then.

 

[Stato]

Don't come on here much anymore - I got fed up with the arguments and abuse on the Brexit thread. So, it was quite odd (on a random viewing on here) to see some notifications.

It's amazing reading back some of this thread at the way certain posters feign innocence over abuse (calling people thick, racist, etc.), but then go to the Brexit thread and accuse all Brexit voters as being racist,/thick/xenophobic (or saying that all racists voted leave).

Well, IMO, Teresa May in her time as home secretary exhibited racist tendencies/policies, yet she voted remain and tried her best to stymie Brexit, so I think we can safely call that argument busted too.

Can we safely call that argument busted?

To disprove the claim that all Brexit voters are racist, you have suggested that there is evidence that one Remain voter may be racist. You then claim that your argument is proven. If I wanted to disprove the suggestion, I would be looking for evidence of a Brexit voter not being a racist, rather than evidence that a Remain voter is a racist. Personally, I wouldn't argue with your premise, but you certainly haven't provided any evidence to support it, let alone prove it.

 

[GT49er]

Can we safely call that argument busted?

To disprove the claim that all Brexit voters are racist, you have suggested that there is evidence that one Remain voter may be racist. You then claim that your argument is proven. If I wanted to disprove the suggestion, I would be looking for evidence of a Brexit voter not being a racist, rather than evidence that a Remain voter is a racist. Personally, I wouldn't argue with your premise, but you certainly haven't provided any evidence to support it, let alone prove it.

The onus isn't on him to disprove anything. The notion that 17+M voters in this country are racist is clearly preposterous, but there are those who claim to know that as well as believing in unicorns, all leavers are racists. To make a ludicrous claim like that, the onus is clearly on the accusers to prove their case. Which clearly they can't.

Of course, in any group of several million people you are likely to find some racists - be that group leavers, remainers, Tories, Labour, Afro-Caribbeans, Asians, Jews - whatever group, there will always be some unsavoury characters. But to claim to know that all members of a particular group are racist (unless we're talking about the likes of the BNP or the Ku Klux Klan), that in itself is prejudice of the worst kind.

 

[Stato]

I find Milo a bit click-baity, although he does have some interesting perspectives, they seem to get lost in his delivery. I much prefer JBP, who just gives you the facts/psychology as to why he thinks certain ways about certain things. Anyone who can draw this from Pinoccio has got my attention.

“Most of your viewers will have watched Pinocchio. There’s a scene in Pinocchio where Geppetto wishes upon a star. What it means is he lifts up his eyes beyond the horizon to something transcendent — to something ultimate — because that’s what a star is, it’s part of the eternity of the night sky.

And so he lifts his eyes up above his daily concerns and he says, ‘What I want — what I want more than anything else — is that my creation will become a genuine individual.’ Right? It’s a heroic gesture because it’s so unlikely. And that catalyzes the puppet’s transformation into a real being. And we start as puppets. And so the trick is to get rid of your god**** strings.

And you remember in Pinocchio, he faces a lot of temptations. One is to be a liar; the other is to be a neurotic victim. That’s how he ends up in Pleasure Island where he just about gets sold into the salt mines and turns into a braying jackass … because it’s run by authoritarians.

Well, okay, so what you do is lift up your eyes and you say, ‘Look, I would like being to progress in the best possible manner. And that’s best for me, best for my family, best for society — maybe best for the world. Simultaneously, I would like to attain that, whatever that is. That’s what I want. You commit to that.

Then you tell the truth. And you can tell if you’re telling the truth. You can tell it physiologically. And so this is something to learn. […] That’s really the core idea in Western civilization, to build yourself into a forthright individual who’s capable of telling the truth and capable of bearing the responsibilities of citizenry.” — Jordan Peterson.

https://douglasernst.blog/2017/06/0...with-the-infinite-if-you-actively-seek-truth/

I am continually amazed that Jordan Peterson has managed to build a reputation for cleverness. I can only put it down to the confirmation bias of a certain sector of the internet that seems to be obsessed with proving it's own cleverness, presumably thinking that being clever can in some way compensate for a lack of empathy. It can't. Even if what was being said actually did stand up to logical reasoning, or was saying anything at all original.

This example is typical of his thought. Meandering metaphor, fallacious reasoning, misinterpretation of evidence to support claim, disconnected premise, statement about 'Western Civilisation' that would be equally applicable to any other culture held up as evidence of the 'special-ness' of Western thought. A concept that was very popular during the age of European empire building, but has seemed slightly undermined by the slavery, theft and genocide that it excused.

 

[Stato]

The onus isn't on him to disprove anything. The notion that 17+M voters in this country are racist is clearly preposterous, but there are those who claim to know that as well as believing in unicorns, all leavers are racists. To make a ludicrous claim like that, the onus is clearly on the accusers to prove their case. Which clearly they can't.

Of course, in any group of several million people you are likely to find some racists - be that group leavers, remainers, Tories, Labour, Afro-Caribbeans, Asians, Jews - whatever group, there will always be some unsavoury characters. But to claim to know that all members of a particular group are racist (unless we're talking about the likes of the BNP or the Ku Klux Klan), that in itself is prejudice of the worst kind.

I wouldn't disagree with anything you have said. I didn't ask anyone to prove or disprove anything. I just pointed out that what had been written was a syllogistic fallacy. I'm not arguing the question, I'm questioning the argument.

 

[GT49er]

I wouldn't disagree with anything you have said. I didn't ask anyone to prove or disprove anything. I just pointed out that what had been written was a syllogistic fallacy. I'm not arguing the question, I'm questioning the argument.

Fair enough.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Your experience in the wider world is horribly limited then.

Cool story bro

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Who the ****s going to watch a video from a renowned paedophile sympathiser. You might as well start posting Gary Glitter videos

Had forgotten about this thread till it was just rebounced. Have forgotten why I have the OP on ignore. Actually, **** it, I don't really care. As you were.

 

[Weststander]

The onus isn't on him to disprove anything. The notion that 17+M voters in this country are racist is clearly preposterous, but there are those who claim to know that as well as believing in unicorns, all leavers are racists. To make a ludicrous claim like that, the onus is clearly on the accusers to prove their case. Which clearly they can't.

Of course, in any group of several million people you are likely to find some racists - be that group leavers, remainers, Tories, Labour, Afro-Caribbeans, Asians, Jews - whatever group, there will always be some unsavoury characters. But to claim to know that all members of a particular group are racist (unless we're talking about the likes of the BNP or the Ku Klux Klan), that in itself is prejudice of the worst kind.

This.

I personally know loads of folk across Sussex who voted for Brexit, not me, across many walks of life and all age groups including youth, the vast majority of whom are not racist whatsoever. In fact, they come down like a ton (or should I say tonne) of bricks on anyone who is casually racist. There is one bloke who can’t stand immigrants like the Poles, but he’s the odd one out.

Within my Remain associates, one of two are casually racist, also critical of mass inwards migration. They voted Remain for purely economic grounds and still strongly believe in the EU for their prosperity.

Generalising against either Remainers or Brexiteers, pigeon holing, is ill informed, lazy and rather childish.

 

[Guinness Boy]

As much as this is circular there is one poster on the Brexit thread, Nick someone or other, who has already nailed the Brexit / Racist argument. The post ran along the lines of "not all Leave voters are racist but all racists are Leave voters".

That backs up my personal experience 100% and is borne out on this board. There are Leave voters who voted that way because they genuinely believe in it, others who voted Leave as a protest. I don't have a problem with that at all. But the right, from the Alt Right message board inspitred saddos, to Tommy Yaxley Lennon, to Farage to the ERG voted leave. So did our very own Pretty pink fairy, a poster who delights in linking to the KKK.

Yes, it would greatly help Remain's credibility if they could intellectually separate the two groups but it's no different to stereotyping Remainers as moaning middle class yoghurt knitters.

So, back to the OP. Milo's whole reason for living is to make money out of dividing the extremes on this side of the argument. In his world, everyone who disagrees is a freedom hating SJW and, in the world he's attacking, Milo and the Alt Right are all racist scumbags. These are the narratives that seem to get traction on social media these days which is why, NSC excepted, I've removed myself from it totally.

 

[Weststander]

As much as this is circular there is one poster on the Brexit thread, Nick someone or other, who has already nailed the Brexit / Racist argument. The post ran along the lines of "not all Leave voters are racist but all racists are Leave voters".

That backs up my personal experience 100% and is borne out on this board. There are Leave voters who voted that way because they genuinely believe in it, others who voted Leave as a protest. I don't have a problem with that at all. But the right, from the Alt Right message board inspitred saddos, to Tommy Yaxley Lennon, to Farage to the ERG voted leave. So did our very own Pretty pink fairy, a poster who delights in linking to the KKK.

Yes, it would greatly help Remain's credibility if they could intellectually separate the two groups but it's no different to stereotyping Remainers as moaning middle class yoghurt knitters.

So, back to the OP. Milo's whole reason for living is to make money out of dividing the extremes on this side of the argument. In his world, everyone who disagrees is a freedom hating SJW and, in the world he's attacking, Milo and the Alt Right are all racist scumbags. These are the narratives that seem to get traction on social media these days which is why, NSC excepted, I've removed myself from it totally.

I genuinely know some strong Remainers who are racist. Very ‘switched on’ financially, they love the huge financial opportunities that the EU has given high flyers, entrepreneurs, business. [Probably the very same reasons why Corbyn, McDonnell and key union people are lifelong anti EU]. They are not out and out Tories, I know some voted for Blair.

‘Nick’s’ catchy phrase may have been an attractively neat summary, but it was another inaccurate generalisation.

 

[Hastings gull]

This.

I personally know loads of folk across Sussex who voted for Brexit, not me, across many walks of life and all age groups including youth, the vast majority of whom are not racist whatsoever. In fact, they come down like a ton (or should I say tonne) of bricks on anyone who is casually racist. There is one bloke who can’t stand immigrants like the Poles, but he’s the odd one out.

Within my Remain associates, one of two are casually racist, also critical of mass inwards migration. They voted Remain for purely economic grounds and still strongly believe in the EU for their prosperity.

Generalising against either Remainers or Brexiteers, pigeon holing, is ill informed, lazy and rather childish.

If you keep posting such common sense on here about Brexit, I am afraid that I will have no alternative but to report you to the mods for immediate banning.
I

 

[nicko31]

A former employee of Breitbart, sacked over comments regarding his views on sex with boys below the age of consent.

Banned from entering Australia recently...

 

[GT49er]

To pick out one or two things from your post (yes, I know we are on totally different sides of the argument, but..................)

As much as this is circular there is one poster on the Brexit thread, Nick someone or other, who has already nailed the Brexit / Racist argument. The post ran along the lines of "not all Leave voters are racist but all racists are Leave voters"..

It would have been a splendid point if he's actually added to it to bring it up to the reality:
"Not all Leave voters are racist but all racists are Leave voters, except those who voted remain or didn't vote at all".

There are Leave voters who voted that way because they genuinely believe in it, others who voted Leave as a protest. I don't have a problem with that at all..

Can't fault that statement at all. If only all the remainers on the Brexit thread could get their heads round that; unfortunately, flinging around insults like old, thick, swivel eyed loon, racist and believer in unicorns added nothing to the debate, and are an integral reason why that particular thread is not a 'debate' in any reasonable sense of the word. Yes, I know there's a rather right wing poster who regular posts three, four or five word slogans - you know who I mean - but nobody takes much notice of him.

Yes, it would greatly help Remain's credibility if they could intellectually separate the two groups.

It would have made for a much more credible campaign from the very beginning if they had done that. Not sure it would have made any difference to the outcome. For leavers like me, who aren't thick or racist (I know, I've said I'm not racist, so therefore according to some nut jobs I must be!) that wouldn't have swayed us. We wanted to leave, and if all the nasty sods from the BNP and the EDL also wanted to leave - well, we deplore their mind-set and their policies and disagree with them on everything....except this one issue. So, we had to tick the same box on the ballot paper as they did.
There's an old Indian phrase that (translated to English) is appropriate: my enemy's enemy is my friend. We may not like them (not half we don't) but on this one issue (and one issue only) we will vote with them. Once we're out, I'll go back to voting Labour (once they've ditched Corbyn!)

 

[Guinness Boy]

I genuinely know some strong Remainers who are racist..

Then their argument doesn’t stack up. They’re arguing for immigration and more control from the French and Germans. Even accidentally that’s not a racist argument.

I’d love to see some evidence that a racist person has voted Remain in terms of a couple of linked quotes. I haven’t seen it here at all. I fully appreciate that not all Leavers are racist. But I’ve not seen anyone who pushes race as an agenda who is also a Remainer. Evidence would be greatly, and interestingly, received.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Weststander]

Then their argument doesn’t stack up. They’re arguing for immigration and more control from the French and Germans. Even accidentally that’s not a racist argument.

I’d love to see some evidence that a racist person has voted Remain in terms of a couple of linked quotes. I haven’t seen it here at all. I fully appreciate that not all Leavers are racist. But I’ve not seen anyone who pushes race as an agenda who is also a Remainer. Evidence would be greatly, and interestingly, received.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To give a bit more background to some of the sometimes racist Remainers I refer to:

One is a businessmen, who prides himself on always having been a Libdem, and loathes the way Brighton and Hove has changed so much in such a quick time. The shear number of immigrants in his beloved city, how Poles and Latvians serving in cafes ‘have taken jobs’. Economically, a huge Remainer, and very anti the Corbyn, McDonnell, Farage and Johnson take on the EU. He doesn’t want Brexit to hurt business in the city, including his own interests.

Another from north Sussex loathes Johnson and Corbyn, politically swinging between Blair and moderate Toryism. Consistently big on Remain throughout for economic reasons, he doesn’t want the UK’s financial interests hurt, which in turn gives him uncertainty. Yet he loathes the open doors immigration policy, he’s disparaging of the Sangatte lot, very clear that new Africans arrivals shouldn’t be allowed to stay in Europe.

Away from the UK, we have friends in Sweden and we spend time there. Away from Stockholm, we’ve spent time with Swedes in rural and smaller towns, where racism is rife. Even at school, most of the kids are openly racist about all the new immigrants. Yet, most are pro Sweden’s membership of the EU.

It’s far more complicated and nuanced that pigeon-holers would like to believe.

 

[GT49er]

Then their argument doesn’t stack up. They’re arguing for immigration and more control from the French and Germans. Even accidentally that’s not a racist argument.

Cobblers! Of course that can be a racist argument - large numbers of French and Germans (especially those in the lower economic quadrant, and therefore most likely to migrate, for economic reasons) are actually brown people these days! Westander's argument that some remainers are racists stands up perfectly. Do you really think that amongst a group of however million voters it was (15, 16million? - about a million less than leave, anyway IIRC) there wouldn't be some racists among them?

Barking.................it's just as preposterous as the lie that all leaver are racists.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

I am continually amazed that Jordan Peterson has managed to build a reputation for cleverness. I can only put it down to the confirmation bias of a certain sector of the internet that seems to be obsessed with proving it's own cleverness, presumably thinking that being clever can in some way compensate for a lack of empathy. It can't. Even if what was being said actually did stand up to logical reasoning, or was saying anything at all original.

This example is typical of his thought. Meandering metaphor, fallacious reasoning, misinterpretation of evidence to support claim, disconnected premise, statement about 'Western Civilisation' that would be equally applicable to any other culture held up as evidence of the 'special-ness' of Western thought. A concept that was very popular during the age of European empire building, but has seemed slightly undermined by the slavery, theft and genocide that it excused.

Not a fan then?

 

[dingodan]

I am continually amazed that Jordan Peterson has managed to build a reputation for cleverness. I can only put it down to the confirmation bias of a certain sector of the internet that seems to be obsessed with proving it's own cleverness, presumably thinking that being clever can in some way compensate for a lack of empathy. It can't. Even if what was being said actually did stand up to logical reasoning, or was saying anything at all original.

This example is typical of his thought. Meandering metaphor, fallacious reasoning, misinterpretation of evidence to support claim, disconnected premise, statement about 'Western Civilisation' that would be equally applicable to any other culture held up as evidence of the 'special-ness' of Western thought. A concept that was very popular during the age of European empire building, but has seemed slightly undermined by the slavery, theft and genocide that it excused.

These are the things which Jordan Peterson talks about which really hit home with me.