[Politics] Lib Dems Win North Shropshire By-Election

[essbee1]

Hmmm. You might be a bit premature there, governments do lose safe seats in by-elections. My True-Blue father-in-law still talks about the time he voted for Eric Lubbock in 1962 when the Liberals won the safe Tory seat of Orpington.

Still, yes it is good news. If the Tories had held on in spite of everything then I really would have despaired.

Brought the govt down did it not? I live in the town and they still talk about it.

 

[sparkie]

Do you think it’s over in the USA?

I can see Trump running and winning next time out due to Biden/Harris.

Trump's declining mental health would have more time to further degrade so it's by no means certain he'd be fit enough to run.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I'm hoping this will increase factions in the Tory Party and lead to a more centrist leadership.

It was far right tools like Rees-Mogg and Leadsom who drove the lobbying scandal and tried to change the rules. Johnson just went along with his leaver mates because they got him elected in the first place.

Red Wall MPs have no such loyalty. Younger, more dynamic MPs representing less economically well off parts of the UK will hopefully unite to help get rid of him.

Also think Tuesday press conference (which didn't say anything we didn't already know) was a shameless attempt to deflect attention.

In some ways, its heartening. Labour seem to be getting their act together with a new wave of dynamic, more moderate politicians and it would be good to see an election fight between two less radical parties. Labour got rid of Corbyn thankfully, now the Tories need to do the same with Johnson.

 

[beorhthelm]

There needs to be so much democratic reform.

Only 2 levels of our 3 top tiers of Governance are elected by the people. Voters HAVE to have an effect on who they don’t want. FPTP allows absolute scum like Johnson to take office. The problem is, I don’t think enough people in this Country would understand any other electoral system. It’s just us and Belarus left with this archaic voting system in Europe.

and France. the exact mechanics differ, its still get a majority of votes, not PR. why couldnt Johnson be PM under an alternative? under a party list system he gets a seat, can be voted leader by the party. if they win the election or dominant party (voting behaviours would change so cant rule that out), he becomes PM. under a directly elected PM, he'd have beaten Corbyn and others confortably. probably shouldnt look to change the political system on the basis of the current incumbant, better arguments to make. he'll be gone within a year, as the party turn on him.

 

[Lever]

I hope Johnson is kept in place.... and his cronies. They are becoming an asset for the left.......

 

[nicko31]

The social experiment of putting a complete idiot in charge will surely come to an end just like it did in the US. The extreme right have had their fun, at the next opportunity lets get some decent, normal people in to fight for their constituents.

There's a long road to get rid of this lot.

With Scotland lost its hard enough for Labour, then there's abolishing the fixed term parliament act, introducing Voter ID to supress non-Tory vote and jerrymander boundaries.

Basically they will try anything to cling onto power, whatever they can do, lawful or unlawful, they will do

I'm pleased today people are starting to wake up to these crooks but Johnson will be gone and will be replaced by someone else to try and reset, then try and pretend the last 11.12, 13 years was nothing to do with them

Lizz Truss looks favourite, out of the fire and into the dire

 

[Lever]

The social experiment of putting a complete idiot in charge will surely come to an end just like it did in the US. The extreme right have had their fun, at the next opportunity lets get some decent, normal people in to fight for their constituents.

Good comment! I agree with your perspective and hope your predictions are correct.

 

[highflyer]

I'm hoping this will increase factions in the Tory Party and lead to a more centrist leadership.

It was far right tools like Rees-Mogg and Leadsom who drove the lobbying scandal and tried to change the rules. Johnson just went along with his leaver mates because they got him elected in the first place.

Red Wall MPs have no such loyalty. Younger, more dynamic MPs representing less economically well off parts of the UK will hopefully unite to help get rid of him.

Also think Tuesday press conference (which didn't say anything we didn't already know) was a shameless attempt to deflect attention.

In some ways, its heartening. Labour seem to be getting their act together with a new wave of dynamic, more moderate politicians and it would be good to see an election fight between two less radical parties. Labour got rid of Corbyn thankfully, now the Tories need to do the same with Johnson.

I don't think there are any centrist factions in the Tories.
Maybe some centre right individuals, but factionally it's a battle between economic far right vs illiberal/nationalist right

 

[The Clamp]

Fantastic news. Off you **** now, Boris.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

And this was a 60% Leave voting constituency. Looks like they've switched their focus from leaving the EU to leaving the Tories. The Red Wall Tory seats (which of course this wasn't) were built on the Leave votes - could be that this factor is diminishing in importance. And that's before the full (crap) consequences of Brexit really kick in.

 

[The Clamp]

There's a long road to get rid of this lot.

With Scotland lost its hard enough for Labour, then there's abolishing the fixed term parliament act, introducing Voter ID to supress non-Tory vote and jerrymander boundaries.

Basically they will try anything to cling onto power, whatever they can do, lawful or unlawful, they will do

I'm pleased today people are starting to wake up to these crooks but Johnson will be gone and will be replaced by someone else to try and reset, then try and pretend the last 11.12, 13 years was nothing to do with them

Lizz Truss looks favourite, out of the fire and into the dire

You are correct but these type of governments always collapse. They are unsustainable. It’s all a question of how much damage these fascists cause while they are in power.

 

[A1X]

I'd imagine this news has not been received as well anywhere as it has in the offices of Liz Truss, Rishi Sunak and Michael Gove

 

[The Albion Roar]

Have the Lib Dems and Labour finally realised they need to work together?!?

Whilst Labour's policy (wrongly IMO) is to not indulge in tactical voting, and to oppose PR, it's difficult to actually make a 'policy', even if Starmer were minded to do so.

These things can only be done at a local, grassroots level, where the party members get to know the lay of the land better than the officers at any party's national HQ. In that regard, Labour has a problem, and it's a fundamental, whole-party problem.

The Conservatives and The Green Party (the latter can have some effect in certain areas) have a similar party set-up inasmuch as they are governed by their individual local members who, in effect, set the party agenda. Labour, on the other hand, has a top-down approach to its party hierarchy, and often has will to impose policy and local decisions from within its National Executive.

That's not to say that one structure is better or most efficient than any other, but what it does mean is that, in order for local Labour activists to encourage tactical voting, they must go against the express wishes (and policies) of the National Executive - in other words, defy the party.

------------

One caveat to above: Since Boris Johnson became leader of the Conservative Party (and hence Prime Minister), he has ridden roughshod over party rules and party democracy. There is much anecdotal evidence that Conservative Party members will only vote Tory because, well... they just will, rather than actively supporting Johnson at every turn. The votes may well go for him in the Commons, but any unity at Parliamentary level is done through fear and coercion, rather than through political debate. (There are s few nutters who will slavishly follow Johnson, but that's another story).

The point of this caveat is that there are now many, many disenfranchised grassroots Conservative Party members who despise Johnson et al, but (especially if they voted remain) who also effectively have no voice within the party. And that frustration will eventually spill over.

Of course, they won't consider an alternative for the good of the country, only the good of the Party.

 

[A1X]

Also of course worth remembering that if Johnson and his chums had just sat back and accepted Owen Patterson's 30 day suspension rather than tried to fight it so hard, he'd have been back in the Commons a couple of weeks ago and it would all have been forgotten ages ago.

 

[Nitram]

Boris is in the last chance saloon now, can’t see him changing his ways though. Denial, avoidance and his gut instinct to keep digging which served him well in the past has now caught up with him. One more scandal and he will be asked to go by his own party.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Boris is in the last chance saloon now, can’t see him changing his ways though. Denial, avoidance and his gut instinct to keep digging which served him well in the past has now caught up with him. One more scandal and he will be asked to go by his own party.

All the while he has the (general) support of the national press, and the lack of accountability within the BBC News and Current Affairs department (Ros Atkins aside), he will be able to ride this out.

 

[nicko31]

You are correct but these type of governments always collapse. They are unsustainable. It’s all a question of how much damage these fascists cause while they are in power.

They have a huge wall of money coming their way, all those donors that got "life change rich" on crony contracts will be paying some back. They'll be hard to beat

Labour need to run on competence and transparency, something which is alien to these crooks

 

[The Clamp]

They have a huge wall of money coming their way, all those donors that got "life change rich" on crony contracts will be paying some back. They'll be hard to beat

Labour need to run on competence and transparency, something which is alien to these crooks

To be honest, I see this government being removed due to corruption, scandal and law breaking.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I'd imagine this news has not been received as well anywhere as it has in the offices of Liz Truss, Rishi Sunak and Michael Gove

I bet not one of them wants the leadership right now. Politically very tricky times and leading an ill disciplined rabble of a party. I think anyone taking over now, capable of surviving more than 6 months in charge would be classed as a masterful political tactician.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Johnson will be gone and will be replaced by someone else to try and reset, then try and pretend the last 11.12, 13 years was nothing to do with them

Lizz Truss looks favourite, out of the fire and into the dire

Truss has been a cabinet member in the last three governements though, I'm not sure she can argue for a clean slate. Not to mention the fact she performed a huge U-turn on Brexit, which is a problem for a lot of Tories.