[News] Letter to the Police - Important Please read

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why would that make you avoid the main thread? Are you worried about repercussions outside of NSC? If it’s just the thread, your views and ethnicity would be welcome - it’s been a really good debate.

PS Also Jew in support of Palestinian rights

As a non-Jew I salute your stance. I am waiting for an Arab to step forward in favour of Jewish rights. I'm not holding my breath. In my long life I've not met one.

The most frustrating thing for me is not being able to see a way out of this mess. Someone posted a very good analysis that considers that Hamas is trying to drive Israel into rabid right wing retaliation, which will then bring in other middle east nations in a mass smiting.

I don't see that happening all the while the US has Israel's back.

Anyway, this is a side-discussion. I enjoy your thoughts so please keep them coming

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Just to clarify my personal position, as to be honest I don’t want to fall out anymore posters on here.
Yes, I am saddened by the plight of the Palestinian people,
no, I am not a supporter of Hamas nor am I a terrorist sympathiser,
The bombing of the music festival was wrong and horrific,
I have no hatred of Jewish/Israeli people.
I dislike the Israeli Government and believe they are war mongers,
I am not Anti-Semitic and get quite annoyed by anyone using this term towards anyone that simply criticises the Israeli Government
View attachment 167938
Most of all I want there to be peace

I think all that is about exactly where I stand

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A few years old but not much has changed…

Thanks for posting.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Israel government a terrorist organisation?

My father-in-law was a Chaplain in the army in Palestine during the Second World War - he wasn’t actually discharged until 1947. He often said (not recently, as he died in the 1980s), that when he was there after the end of the war it very clearly was the Israelis who were the terrorists, the freedom fighters.

they did quite rightly get their state, their country, but F-i-L went back a couple of times to lead for a couple of Tour/cruise companies trips/pilgrimages to the Holy Land. He always got on well with the Palestinians and appreciated their plight.

I profess no great knowledge or expertise on the current situation, but think there is a great difference between Palestinians and Hamas. It maybe needs a Desmond Tutu like South African Peace and Reconciliation Committee to sort it out. But it is years/decades/centuries/millennia of problems.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Quite. Two entirely different things ! Something @Live by the sea doesn't seem to grasp. But he is American so we need to give him some slack.

Well obviously this account is very American as he keeps reminding us, but I'm not sure about his other three accounts. I haven't noticed three other quite so obviously 'American accounts'

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

My mother has one, also 12 but a working springer. Amazing animal and a real peoples dog, only just starting to real slow up

She was 100% my wife's dog, never left her side. She always greeted me home from work especially as often the case I'd been away for a few days. She would grin, curling her lips back.

She witnessed my wife dying, a heart attack. I allowed her to sit with her for a while later that evening before they took her away. That night she slept on the bed with me and hasn't left my side since (apart from me giving her a treat and running out the door!)

Bless her she's getting old and time is taking its toll.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Once again, Braverman has not read the room, just like her mother was guilty of when she named her daughter after Sue-Ellen from Dallas.

The British people (overwhelmingly) support the innocent Israeli victims of the Hamas terrorist scum as well as the innocent Palestinian families who are being slaughtered in their thousands daily because the far right Israeli government is more concerned with revenge and vengeance than it is with building peace. The British people (overwhelming) want a peaceful Palestinian homeland and a peaceful and unthreatened Israel.

Most British people (including me) could not care less if Hamas terrorists are murdered by the IDF and actually want those who planned and carried out the worst sort of Evil bestowed upon Jewish people since the holocaust brought to justice ASAP but British armed forces would do this in a clinical, precise and caring manner avoiding as much civilian death as possible. This Israeli government is not concerned with those principles one jot. An eye for an eye.

So Sue-Ellen, if I choose to support the hundreds (soon to be thousands) of innocent Palestinians being slaughtered including children, women and the elderly by respectfully marching with the flag of Palestine, I will. It’s a free country, a freedom won against the Nazis by British heroes with proper values of freedom long before your economic migrant parents moved to this country in the 60’s. Your values are are about as British and as corrosive as the Japanese knotweed in my garden. Shame on you. Scum. Stop trying divide our great nation!

 

[vegster]

Please see below the letter from the UK Home Secretary to the Chief Constables .

Whatever your views on the current crisis in Israel; what is undisputed is that Hamas is a prescribed terrorist group in its entirety here in the UK , in USA as well as numerous other countries in Europe & beyond .

Please read below what people in this country are NOT allowed to do & if they do they can be committing a criminal offence .

Particularly I draw your attention to either inviting support for Hamas or expressing support for Hamas in a reckless manner that would encourage others to support .

If anyone were to post anything on NSC that breaches the guidelines listed in the letter below , then you can be reported to the police for potentially committing a criminal offence ( your contact info would be requested via the owner and main administrator of this message board )

I thought it important that everyone in NSC was made aware .

If someone gets a criminal record this can have an impact on many things including your job .



Chief Constables England and Wales
Copied to Police and Crime Commissioners England and Wales
10 October 2023
Dear all,
You will be aware of, and no doubt share my disgust at, the barbaric terrorist attacks we’ve seen committed against Israel in recent days. Sadly, experience indicates that whenever Israel is attacked, Islamists and other racists, seek to use legitimate Israeli defensive measures as a pretext to stir up hatred against British Jews and increase fear within the Jewish community. In the past, this has included vandalism of Jewish businesses, desecration of memorials and religious sites, physical and verbal abuse of Jews on the streets, convoys driving through Jewish neighbourhoods hurling antisemitic abuse, and proliferation of antisemitism online. There is an obvious risk that this pattern will be repeated during the current conflict.
I am aware that a number of police forces, working in close coordination with the Community Security Trust (CST) and other Jewish communal bodies, have already taken operational measures to strengthen the security of Jewish communities, including through increased patrols in neighbourhoods with large Jewish populations.
I know that increased visibility of patrols, as well as a swift and zero tolerance approach to antisemitism, will provide our Jewish communities with reassurance that the police are taking this threat seriously and will be there to protect them if need be.
As you know, Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK in its entirety. It is therefore a criminal offence for a person in the UK to:

• belong to Hamas
• invite support for Hamas
• express support for Hamas whilst being reckless as to whether the expression will encourage support of it
• arrange a meeting in support of Hamas
• wear clothing or carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of Hamas or
• publish an image of an article such as a flag or logo in the same circumstances

At a time when Hamas terrorists are massacring civilians and taking the most vulnerable (including the elderly, women, and children) hostage, we can all recognise the harrowing effect that displays of their logos and flags can have on communities. I therefore ask that your police forces are alert and ready to respond to any potential offences.
Of course, it is not just explicit pro-Hamas symbols and chants that are cause for concern. I would encourage police to consider whether chants such as “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” should be understood as an expression of a violent desire to see Israel erased from the world, and whether its use in certain contexts may amount to a racially aggravated section 5 public order offence.
I would encourage police to give similar consideration to the presence of symbols such as swastikas at anti-Israel demonstrations. Context is crucial. Behaviours that are legitimate in some circumstances, for example the waving of a Palestinian flag, may not be legitimate such as when intended to glorify acts of terrorism. Nor is it acceptable to drive through Jewish neighbourhoods, or single out Jewish members of the public, to aggressively chant or wave pro-Palestinian symbols at. Where harassment is identified, I would encourage the police to take swift and appropriate enforcement action.
I encourage all Chief Officers to ensure that any protests which could exacerbate community tensions by way of offensive placards, chants, or behaviours that could be construed as incitement or harassment, have a strong police presence to ensure perpetrators are appropriately dealt with, and that communities feel protected. Decisions on arrests are rightly an operational matter for the police, in line with the duty to keep the peace, to protect communities, and to prevent the commission of offences. However, I would urge you to ensure your forces use all available powers to prevent disorder and distress to our communities, and that your officers will act if there are any incidents that stray into criminality.
I have also been absolutely clear that online offending is as serious as offline offending. You will be aware that we have robust legislation in place to deal with terrorist content online, as well as threatening and abusive behaviour or behaviour which is intended or likely to stir up hatred. I urge you to ensure that this continues to be taken into consideration in the upcoming days and that any reports of online offending are dealt with promptly.
I expect online referral units to respond swiftly to any content that breaks the law. In particular, I expect the CT Internet Referral Unit to monitor the situation and respond quickly to any online content that breaches the thresholds for terrorism legislation (TACT), working with tech companies to ensure its removal. I similarly expect the Online Hate Crime Hub to respond to any reports of online content that contravenes hate crime legislation to ensure the perpetrators can be brought to justice.
There can be no place for antisemitism or glorification of terrorism on the streets of Britain. I therefore expect the police to use the full force of the law against displays of support for Hamas, other proscribed terrorist groups or attempts to harass and intimidate British Jews.
Ensuring that there are heavy criminal consequences for any perpetrators is the best way to deter future offending and ensure the confidence and safety of our Jewish communities.
Yours sincerely,
Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP

I think you will find that Hamas is a Proscribed group rather than prescribed.

 

[Krafty]

It looks like the English FA will show their solidarity to recognise the victims of violence in Israel during the friendly against Australia on Friday.
It is nice to have a period of remembrance for those struggling during this brutal conflict, except they are clearly disregarding the innocent civilians of Palestine who are also experiencing similar trauma.
Therefore, if there is to be a period of silence, I will remember the good people from both sides of the border

 

[Zeberdi]

I see the trolls got their wish and finally got the other thread to shut down/render invisible a debate they didnt like the tone of or agree with us even having - infuriating when people like myself and many others have worked hard to maintain a respectful and informative debate over the past few days with lots of information and sharing a way to try and get our head around events in the Middle East. Upsetting too that there is so much good stuff that people posted that will disappear down the pages while this silly one takes over.

Why is it always the same few handful of people on NSC who end up spoiling it for everyone else because they’ve tossed their dummies out of the pram.

Seriously, can we just boot these people off the forum for a few days - rather than completely stiffle participation for others?

 

[Justice]

I see the trolls got their wish and finally got the other thread to shut down/render invisible a debate they didnt like the tone of or agree with us even having - infuriating when people like myself and many others have worked hard to maintain a respectful and informative debate over the past few days with lots of information and sharing a way to try and get our head around events in the Middle East. Upsetting too that there is so much good stuff that people posted that will disappear down the pages while this silly one takes over.

Why is it always the same few handful of people on NSC who end up spoiling it for everyone else because they’ve tossed their dummies out of the pram.

You’ve been top notch whilst others have had different agendas which I’m guessing could bring repercussions to the site.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

She was 100% my wife's dog, never left her side. She always greeted me home from work especially as often the case I'd been away for a few days. She would grin, curling her lips back.

She witnessed my wife dying, a heart attack. I allowed her to sit with her for a while later that evening before they took her away. That night she slept on the bed with me and hasn't left my side since (apart from me giving her a treat and running out the door!)

Bless her she's getting old and time is taking its toll.

I know we've dragged the thread OT ( maybe good ! ) but your post just made me cry. My mad springer is absolutely Mrs WS's and won't leave her side when she's at home.

Enjoy her as much as you can - hopefully your wife still lives but through her.

 

[Krafty]

Thank you @Zeberdi for your time and effort in keeping us informed about the topics surrounding the Israel-Palestinian conflict as well as many other users who were also very helpful. It is a shame that the thread had to be temporarily paused due to a small minority of trolls who thought it was a good idea to say unnecessary insults which ruined any form of discussion, but at least a few have been banned or muted as a result.
Hopefully once the thread re-opens we can continue to engage in interesting discussion about matters which are very significant to those across the world currently, but I have a feeling that this will not be the case

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I know we've dragged the thread OT ( maybe good ! ) but your post just made me cry. My mad springer is absolutely Mrs WS's and won't leave her side when she's at home.

Enjoy her as much as you can - hopefully your wife still lives but through her.

She enjoyed dad's rump steak tonight

 

[Zeberdi]

You’ve been top notch whilst others have had different agendas which I’m guessing could bring repercussions to the site.

Thanks - I think the Mods must be deleting quite a few posts before they see the light of day too then - if that’s the case, I get it that a time out is needed but why let another new thread on exactly the same topic run started by someone who was banned from the original thread - shutting one won’t stop certain people from continuing to post - that’s what I find confusing but hey ….

I’m confused why are there so many dogs on this thread though?

 

[Wardy's twin]

If the Israeli government is hell bent on killing Palestinians in Gaza why does it give notification to them where it's going to bomb?

 

[chimneys]

If the Israeli government is hell bent on killing Palestinians in Gaza why does it give notification to them where it's going to bomb?

“…..more than 1,100 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes on Gaza” from BBC site just now suggests those notifications either aren’t happening or don’t give them enough time to get away!

Cannot believe you put that!!

 

[Wozza]

If the Israeli government is hell bent on killing Palestinians in Gaza why does it give notification to them where it's going to bomb?

'They dropped phosphorous bombs', 'nowhere is safe' and 'a belt of fire': Life in Gaza​

In Gaza, the Sky News team on the ground has been speaking to those trying to survive Israel's retaliatory attacks.
Heading to the Al Karama area of Gaza City, they spoke to a woman about what life has been like.
She said she received a warning two days ago and left her home.
When her husband returned today, he found the whole area had been burnt.
"They dropped phosphorus bombs. They burnt the entire area, the whole community had to leave," she said.
"We didn't sleep the whole night…. I didn't think the situation would be like this.
"I came to see our house, to grab my stuff, my daughter came to grab her stuff. I found nothing. Everything is bombed."
ForMurad Abed, no warning came, and he was hesitant to leave his home.
"There's no point, nowhere is safe… The Israelis are just hitting indiscriminately," he said.
Another resident, Mansour Rayan said Israeli forces "carried out a belt of fire".
"A shell descended each second and the houses and streets would shake," he said.
"This is an usurping occupier, a criminal occupier, it targets hospitals, it targets towers, it targets commercial stores, it kills children, it kills women, and it has no deterrent."

 

[Wardy's twin]

Lots of messages on here where people still do not seem to understand the situation in Israel.
20% of the population is Arab and have the vote though they only count for about 10% of the seats in the Israeli parliament because of low turnouts. There are swathes of Palestinians who are not allowed to vote because they turned down the option of becoming Israeli citizens. So when people start talking about apartheid maybe they should understand that much of the alienation is self inflicted. There are prosperous Arab areas and they live in and around Jewish areas.

Hamas fought the origin PLO/Fatah military group and took power in 2005, this group is committed to the destruction of Israel and the Jews and also any Palestinian who is seen to work with/for the jewish government. They are sponsored by Iran (Shia Muslim) who are not interested in the Sunni Palestinians other than to use as canon fodder.

 

[BadFish]

I see the trolls got their wish and finally got the other thread to shut down/render invisible a debate they didnt like the tone of or agree with us even having - infuriating when people like myself and many others have worked hard to maintain a respectful and informative debate over the past few days with lots of information and sharing a way to try and get our head around events in the Middle East. Upsetting too that there is so much good stuff that people posted that will disappear down the pages while this silly one takes over.

Why is it always the same few handful of people on NSC who end up spoiling it for everyone else because they’ve tossed their dummies out of the pram.

Seriously, can we just boot these people off the forum for a few days - rather than completely stiffle participation for others?

Your posts were excellent on that thread. I haven't got round to reading them all but I found them very balanced and informative.

For my part I would like to apologise for engaging in the other nonsense. I really need to learn to ignore and stick to the subject in hand. I've been in here long enough to know that challenging the extreme posts does not change any minds.

Apologies.