Good. The main purpose of the interview is to establish whether this oversight is the tip of the iceberg so to speak, so be prepared for them to want to know dates & details going back years. They will cross check with DWP to see if any other benefits have been overpaid, so to work out the overall overpayment. In cases where you see fraudsters prosecuted, there are multiple benefits involved as they are all inter-linked, and that's where the overall fraud runs into several 000's. If this is solely a HB overpayment for £3-4k I'm pretty sure they won't look to prosecute, particularly if you offer to repay. Although the onus is on you to report changes to them, they know full well they've missed something from the DWP which could have avoided this so they would look foolish taking it further. Good luck.
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Legal Advice - Interview Under Caution
- Thread starter JohnDoe
- Start date
Good. The main purpose of the interview is to establish whether this oversight is the tip of the iceberg so to speak, so be prepared for them to want to know dates & details going back years. They will cross check with DWP to see if any other benefits have been overpaid, so to work out the overall overpayment. In cases where you see fraudsters prosecuted, there are multiple benefits involved as they are all inter-linked, and that's where the overall fraud runs into several 000's. If this is solely a HB overpayment for £3-4k I'm pretty sure they won't look to prosecute, particularly if you offer to repay. Although the onus is on you to report changes to them, they know full well they've missed something from the DWP which could have avoided this so they would look foolish taking it further. Good luck.
There are plenty of lawyers who give an hour or two a week for free to organisations who help people in situations such as yours. Consider contacting them as they may be able to guide you.
In the meantime, start practicing picking up soap in the shower with your feet (just in case).
In the meantime, start practicing picking up soap in the shower with your feet (just in case).
Usually it is best to have legal representation, if they are any good. Sometimes they are not. CAB is variable but they have the extra information.
The first question occurred to me is how much were you earning? The first thing to decide (if I was adviser) was to establish if you have been overpaid in the first place. Housing Benefit is paid to people with low incomes sometimes.
From my own experience, if I start work on temporary contracts, the DWP send the Council notification and then the Council write to me asking me to make a fresh claim for Housing Benefit. If I fail to fill it in, I do not get any reduced benefit.
So then I would ask you how much you were earning when you were not getting Housing Benefit in case you were entitled to it then and failed to claim.
Someone forgot to do something, the DWP or Council as well ?
You will need advice (or research) to avoid paying back too much anyway as they are not guaranteed to calculate the amount correctly. Don't agree to pay back w/o treble checking. If you intuition says play it by ear, I think you are wrong. It has never ever worked for me.
I would not admit anything. I think you have admitted too much already (failure to notify).
Be prepared for them to browbeat you into admitting something you didn't do. That is why you need representation.
The first question occurred to me is how much were you earning? The first thing to decide (if I was adviser) was to establish if you have been overpaid in the first place. Housing Benefit is paid to people with low incomes sometimes.
From my own experience, if I start work on temporary contracts, the DWP send the Council notification and then the Council write to me asking me to make a fresh claim for Housing Benefit. If I fail to fill it in, I do not get any reduced benefit.
So then I would ask you how much you were earning when you were not getting Housing Benefit in case you were entitled to it then and failed to claim.
Someone forgot to do something, the DWP or Council as well ?
You will need advice (or research) to avoid paying back too much anyway as they are not guaranteed to calculate the amount correctly. Don't agree to pay back w/o treble checking. If you intuition says play it by ear, I think you are wrong. It has never ever worked for me.
I would not admit anything. I think you have admitted too much already (failure to notify).
Be prepared for them to browbeat you into admitting something you didn't do. That is why you need representation.
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Baron Pepperpot
Active member
PWA
European Tour 2023/24
Always have representation.
No end result ?
I found it interesting the different opinions, some which I thought were committing suicide. I have been guilty of going w/o representation and losing cases/disputes that I should have won at a canter. It is nigh impossible to getting legal representation for nought nowadays.
I found it interesting the different opinions, some which I thought were committing suicide. I have been guilty of going w/o representation and losing cases/disputes that I should have won at a canter. It is nigh impossible to getting legal representation for nought nowadays.
smalldino
Member
The offence that they will be looking at you under is the SSAA 1992 S112(1A). Which is basically failing to declare a change in your circumstances.
There is an onus on you to declare any change to the council. It does not matter if you told DWP. The council pays your housing benefit not DWP.
They will try to prove various details about your claim. Which from what you say wont be that hard to prove. Do you know if they have spoken to your employer and got details of your wages? have they got details of your bank account? they may have even got details about how often you got a mini statement from your cashpoint. All of this would go to proving you knew that you were receiving the money.
My advice to you is to get legal advice or possibly dont attend. As they will say at the start of the IUC you are not under arrest and can leave at any time. They CAN get you arrested and question you at the police station but for a £4k overpayment this would be very very unlikely.
If you want any more info then PM me. Fraud investigators are well trained at interviewing and a £4k overpayment which is easy to prove has just fallen into their lap they will want to see you and most authorities would prosecute for £4k
There is an onus on you to declare any change to the council. It does not matter if you told DWP. The council pays your housing benefit not DWP.
They will try to prove various details about your claim. Which from what you say wont be that hard to prove. Do you know if they have spoken to your employer and got details of your wages? have they got details of your bank account? they may have even got details about how often you got a mini statement from your cashpoint. All of this would go to proving you knew that you were receiving the money.
My advice to you is to get legal advice or possibly dont attend. As they will say at the start of the IUC you are not under arrest and can leave at any time. They CAN get you arrested and question you at the police station but for a £4k overpayment this would be very very unlikely.
If you want any more info then PM me. Fraud investigators are well trained at interviewing and a £4k overpayment which is easy to prove has just fallen into their lap they will want to see you and most authorities would prosecute for £4k
smalldino
Member
I would'nt let you have a witness or supporter in an interview, Legal representative at the very least but normally only a solicitor.
BensGrandad
New member
When I had my pubs I knew of a couple of people who had dealings with Mid Sussx DC over similar matters and they both said the same that the man representing Mid Sussex DC changed what they actually said in such a manner as to make them sound guilty so they are obviously well trained in distorting facts to suit the purpose. So I should be very careful unless of course the interview is taped and you get given a copy.
Yoda
English & European
Sounds to me that someone at the benefit processing centre for your jsa, didn't do their job properly.
There are two boxes that are meant to be ticked for CTB & HB to notify them off the change in the claim.
(Former accuracy checker for Income Support)
There are two boxes that are meant to be ticked for CTB & HB to notify them off the change in the claim.
(Former accuracy checker for Income Support)
Tubby Mondays
Well-known member
They would also prosecute if he failed to attend and wouldnt have to get him arrested to do that.
Tubby Mondays
Well-known member
The interview is under caution so will be taped or possibly filmed and the interviewee will be given the opportunity to have access to a copy of the tapes/DVD.
Ive worked for several local authorities and am happy to confirm that training in 'distorting facts to suit the purpose' was never on any of the curriculams.
I do not know about distorting facts by either side. But some of the interviewers may inadvertently browbeat the target criminal.
happypig
Staring at the rude boys
Indeed. The phrase "Admit you knew you weren't entitled and we'll go easy on you" is often heard in such interviews. This can prejudice any court case as if the offence was fraudulent from the outset is is considered more serious. It can often be beneficial, if you don't have legal representation, to pre-prepare a statement and refer to it in your answers (make sure it is truthful though).
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
When is the hearing?
That will happen even before they discover the truth of the matter (personal experience: I complained and the Magistrate told the Clerk to shut up!). We do not even know if an inadvertent overpayment had been made by the Council yet. My case was dropped and it was very similar to this. I did not have to pay anything. Because I was not overpaid and they got it wrong.
They make you feel as though you have done something wrong. I did not have legal representation as I could not get it.
It is harder the other way with a claim for compensation w/o legal representation and I lost because the witness disappeared.
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- Thread starter
- #60
First off, thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread; to those I had direct contact with, I am extremely grateful for your time and practical goodwill. Given that the *only* people I shared this experience with were my two character referees and a solicitor, having input from here, in all its guises, was a big ol' pressure release. Thanks.
I've just today signed an agreement with the council, an admin penalty, which essentially is repayment and a fine - and their promise not to prosecute, due to my 'previous good character', something which I suspect was bolstered by my rather unorganised efforts to produce requested financial documents in an orderly and timely fashion. But who knows. The point is, is that it's over.
After talking to people through NSC, I did instruct a solicitor from the off, who was as pretty spectacularly informed about the Land of Law as I was utterly ignorant of it, and which remains to me a completely undiscovered country. I do remember being rather unnerved on realising that she didn't need to believe whether or not I was telling her the truth - it was after all a numbers and dates game, with a couple of character references thrown in to address the 'human' side of things.
As many of you suggested might happen, they did delve pretty thoroughly: statements from the past 18 months, an explanation for every drop of income (for example, I have a savings account with £1 in it, and the resulting penny of interest it annually produces alerted them to ask for proof and paperwork and statements), from birthday cheques to repayments from friends for football tickets etc etc. When one doesn't ever expect to ever have to have this information ready for the asking, ever, it is bizarrely a bit upsetting and disorientating to be saddled with umpteen demands for this/that/the other.
So today. The amount overpaid to me was around £2,500 which exceeded the council's own threshold for when they automatically prosecute or not. I count myself *extremely* fortunate that they haven't. The admin penalty is a percentage of the overpayment, again set independently by the council. 50%, in my case. Legal advice cost around £1,200. A very expensive lesson learned.
Thanks again to all who inadvertently or otherwise helped me deal with this at the beginning. And to the rest of us, don't be as financially irresponsible as I retrospectively realised I was being. It isn't, for one second, worth it.
Cheers all.
I've just today signed an agreement with the council, an admin penalty, which essentially is repayment and a fine - and their promise not to prosecute, due to my 'previous good character', something which I suspect was bolstered by my rather unorganised efforts to produce requested financial documents in an orderly and timely fashion. But who knows. The point is, is that it's over.
After talking to people through NSC, I did instruct a solicitor from the off, who was as pretty spectacularly informed about the Land of Law as I was utterly ignorant of it, and which remains to me a completely undiscovered country. I do remember being rather unnerved on realising that she didn't need to believe whether or not I was telling her the truth - it was after all a numbers and dates game, with a couple of character references thrown in to address the 'human' side of things.
As many of you suggested might happen, they did delve pretty thoroughly: statements from the past 18 months, an explanation for every drop of income (for example, I have a savings account with £1 in it, and the resulting penny of interest it annually produces alerted them to ask for proof and paperwork and statements), from birthday cheques to repayments from friends for football tickets etc etc. When one doesn't ever expect to ever have to have this information ready for the asking, ever, it is bizarrely a bit upsetting and disorientating to be saddled with umpteen demands for this/that/the other.
So today. The amount overpaid to me was around £2,500 which exceeded the council's own threshold for when they automatically prosecute or not. I count myself *extremely* fortunate that they haven't. The admin penalty is a percentage of the overpayment, again set independently by the council. 50%, in my case. Legal advice cost around £1,200. A very expensive lesson learned.
Thanks again to all who inadvertently or otherwise helped me deal with this at the beginning. And to the rest of us, don't be as financially irresponsible as I retrospectively realised I was being. It isn't, for one second, worth it.
Cheers all.