Leeds to get 5 point back

[Jim in the West]

The funny thing is, on the occasions I have been to Leeds (not to watch footie) I have always found the good folks of that city to be incredibly warm, friendly people with no hint of chips on their shoulders. Yet somehow, over the years, this natural warmth hasn't always extended to the football team. For the vast majority of really decent Leeds people, I hope they get out of the mess which the O'Leary years created. But I hope it's not at the expense of underdogs like BHA getting a shot at the play-offs

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

there were no better offers because the offshores already said they would not vote to pass anyone but bates and since they held enough to stop the 75% pass rate it became a moot point.

then laterly it became a point of lu07 had paid football creditors in the intermin period and as such the 'preferred' creditor % for a cva pass had altered and hmrc would have been able to veto the cva anyway.

Was aware of your first point re offshore creditors only agreeing to pass Bates but I'm not 100% clear what your saying in the 2nd para.
Is it that HMRC would have been able to challenge/veto the (or any) CVA or just this one because Leeds Utd 2007 had paid up the football (ie 'preferred) creditors and thereby altered the preferred creditor %age for a CVA?

 

[cjd]

The bitterness continues ! The only reason I'm still here is because I hope sensibility prevails in the end !

thiis is as simple as I can portray it because you people have not been following the happenings from day 1 and all you can do is sit and cry a river without knowing the facts. Thats heights of insecurity and bitterness.

.

Are you still here snivelling about your points....?

"sensibility prevails"......? You are having a laugh aren,t you....?

Your club is run by crooks, supported by scum and is on another planet as regards the thoughts of other club supporters.

For your information, we are reasonably well informed of the situation re your crooked club.
The only bitterness I harbour,is the harm your club,and it,s misguided idiots threatening legal action left right and centre if you cry babies don,t get exactly what you want, to football in general.

Go back to your Waccoe madness board and peddle your stupid and indefensible nonsense there.

 

[clapham_gull]

Here is an interesting recent article

Commercial and Chancery Bar: The law of the game - Legal Week, legal news, comment, events and legal jobs

As I mentioned the Inland Revenue lost a case against Wimbledon and now as a fall back position always question CVAs as a matter of policy.

(Not just in Leeds case Mr Bremner...)

 

[Starry]

Was aware of your first point re offshore creditors only agreeing to pass Bates but I'm not 100% clear what your saying in the 2nd para.
Is it that HMRC would have been able to challenge/veto the (or any) CVA or just this one because Leeds Utd 2007 had paid up the football (ie 'preferred) creditors and thereby altered the preferred creditor %age for a CVA?

yes, kpmg believed that hmrc would then have enough to challenge/refuse any cva. lu07 had paid players wages and some players had left the club during the period this was all going on and so the percentage of football creditors was altering (downwards) leaving the debt of hmrc (which of course stayed the same) rising in % terms to get a pass on a cva.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

yes, kpmg believed that hmrc would then have enough to challenge/refuse any cva. lu07 had paid players wages and some players had left the club during the period this was all going on and so the percentage of football creditors was altering (downwards) leaving the debt of hmrc (which of course stayed the same) rising in % terms to get a pass on a cva.

Thanks very much for this.
So the actions deliberately taken by LU07 (under no duress) knowingly created a situation whereby HMRC could (and probably would as a point of policy) have vetoed/challenged any CVA.
LU07 (then not members of the FL?) approach the FL to obtain this so-called 'share' to join the League Div 1 but contend that they can't comply with League's CVA requirements because HMRC will veto/challenge any CVA because they (LU07) have paid off the football creditors (FCs). Paying the FCs in full is League requirement (as is having an agreed CVA) for clubs exiting administration who want to be admitted to the FL.
The FL could have rejected the LU07 application(?) but 'suggested' a 15pt deduction. LU07 accepted the penalty (under some duress I accept) but immediately gave notice of intention to appeal on the grounds that the FL has no rule that enables them to impose a penalty. The first appeal stage was the August 2007 vote by all the member clubs' chairmen and now there's an arbitration hearing on 14th April.
If my summary is correct the I can see no reason why LU07 didn't approach the FL before paying off anyone and agree an acceptable way forward then? Why settle with the FCs when you're under no pressure to do so and in the full knowledge that this will lead to an HMRC veto/challenge to any CVA? This surely wasn't an accident but perhaps a deliberate strategy (on the part of LU07) or possibly down to some professional neglect by LU07s advisors?

 

[Easy 10]

Our club went into bust last season not because we couldn't run ourselves properly. It was because the HMRC issued a winding up order after they wanted a huge bill to be paid IMMEDIATELY instead of their original agreement of it being paid in INSTALLMENTS ( HMRC has always been the villain ) . they were asking such a big fee, we could not pay it and they pushed us into admin therefore as otherwise we would have lost the club !

Priceless. Absolutely priceless. Do a lot of Leeds fans really peddle and accept your version of events ? Is this the "general wisdom" ?

In the course of assembling a squad you could not afford, awarding handsome contracts to players left, right and centre in a desperate effort to chase the dream and get back to supposedly "where you belong", Leeds United willingly and knowingly rack up £7,000,000 worth of unpaid PAYE to the Inland Revenue....you then go bust, offer 8p / £, and in your eyes its HMRC who are the "villains" in telling you to f*** right off ?!

Breathtaking. You are one f***ed up club and one f***ed up set of supporters if this is anything to go by. Jesus, arn't you even EMBARRASSED ?

 

[clapham_gull]

I remember after the first Risdale debacle they did some deal where some of the huge debt they owed was to be paid back on return to the Premiership.

Krasner arranged this ?

Anyway - because of the administration does that still hold ?

Perhaps Starry can answer that.

Just found this

Leeds face 5m charge if they get back into the Premiership | News | guardian.co.uk Football

Most significant, though, is the £5m payable to the bondholders, who include Metropolitan Life and Teachers, on August 30 of a promotion year. If Leeds fail to secure promotion by May 2009, that £5m sum will then be payable on August 30 of that same year, irrespective of which division they are members.

I presume this has been wiped out by now ?

 

[Seasider78]

Leeds can bleat all they want if they had not tried to cheat adminisration by waiting until they were mathmatically relegated to go into administration they would have had ample time to sort out their differences with HMRC.

Also if Bates had not offered such a derisory amount to the creditors then HMRC would not have challenged the decision in court. Whether Leeds fans like it or not this situation is born out of your clubs piss poor management in the league

HRMC are not evil and had every right to challenge Bates settlement to creditors who lets not forget are owed money so Leeds are the real evil in this. The length of this process meant these credtors would not be paid off in time for the season start.

Lets not forget the FL could have refused you entry altogether as you would not have met the criteria to enter the league in september whilst the challenge rattled on.

Take it on the f*cking chin and count yourself lucky you are even in this league this year. You may believe Bates spin on this but pull your heads out of your arses and realise YOUR CLUB GOT YOU IN THIS MESS

 

[Gazwag]

Our club went into bust last season not because we couldn't run ourselves properly. It was because the HMRC issued a winding up order after they wanted a huge bill to be paid IMMEDIATELY instead of their original agreement of it being paid in INSTALLMENTS

Maybe you should do some more of your research - Unpaid PAYE & NIC contributions and one of the worst sort of debts any business can have, all though poor financial management. What happens is you collect these from your employees and pay this over to the government, it is never your money to start with so thats why the government (tax office) get upset. It is commonplace for debt collectors to very quickly, often without warning, to go to business premises and demand payment or take good to that value.

The fact that so much PAYE/NIC was owing means that your club was in effect using someone elses money to pay players.

And the fact that your club stole from a charity means you can go to hell

 

[Dandyman]

there were no better offers because the offshores already said they would not vote to pass anyone but bates and since they held enough to stop the 75% pass rate it became a moot point.

then laterly it became a point of lu07 had paid football creditors in the intermin period and as such the 'preferred' creditor % for a cva pass had altered and hmrc would have been able to veto the cva anyway.

That'll be the off-shores that most people believe to be fully under the control of Bates, who was also the "agent" of one of those companies?

 

[Mrs Coach]

but there isnt even any smoke, just lots of people saying they think they can smell smoke, but no ones sure.

I dont smell smoke. I smell a steaming pile of BS! lol!

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

it is almost breathtaking - i'm not sure what is more astonishing - the utter cack that flows from Bates mouth or the fact that a rather large collective of people give it any creedence.

The HRMC actually had the audacity to ask for their money - money that is due to them becuase you did not pay it.

I cannot actually find any words that can cover this.

Mind-blowingly astonishing

 

[portlock seagull]

The reason people give it credence DWT is because it's coming from people who are far more in the know and better connected than you on this subject! Nothing astonishing about that.

 

[sten_super]

But portlock, it's Bates! Surely everyone knows that he happily manipulates things to suit his agenda? Do they really believe that everything that they are told by him is 100% genuine?

 

[Bozza]

To most Leeds fans it won't matter what Bates is doing or saying as...

1. They have a decent chance of promotion this year still. If they don't get it this year they'll be very strong favourites to get it next year.

2. As a Championship club, they will be in a very healthy position being either completely or largely debt-free.

3. Being in a strong position in the Championship means they should be able to quickly challenge for a return to the Premiership.

In short, Bates will have completely turned around Leeds United. He'll sell the club, pocket a wedge of cash and leave it in a far better state than it was when he came in.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Ignoring the legal wranglings, this is a club who dumped their debt. Then carried on trading and secured new players because they were free to do so because they did not honour their debts.

This has put them at an advantage in Div One and as Bozza says, if they do go up, will continue to be an advantage in the championship.

It stinks any way you look at it.

 

[portlock seagull]

But portlock, it's Bates! Surely everyone knows that he happily manipulates things to suit his agenda? Do they really believe that everything that they are told by him is 100% genuine?

Fair enough point - but the fact he's got a good track record for getting his own way means I'd be pretty confident if I were a Leeds fan!

 

[Yorkie]

To most Leeds fans it won't matter what Bates is doing or saying as...

1. They have a decent chance of promotion this year still. If they don't get it this year they'll be very strong favourites to get it next year.

2. As a Championship club, they will be in a very healthy position being either completely or largely debt-free.

3. Being in a strong position in the Championship means they should be able to quickly challenge for a return to the Premiership.

In short, Bates will have completely turned around Leeds United. He'll sell the club, pocket a wedge of cash and leave it in a far better state than it was when he came in.

$64,000 question. Would Brighton fans feel happy if we had a chairman who did a similar thing?

 

[Easy 10]

Personally, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed if DK and the Albion conducted themselves like Bates and Leeds. I certainly wouldn't be able to wear the stripes with much pride any more.