Leeds to get 5 point back

[clapham_gull]

Stop spouting rubbish seasider !

?

The fact that CVAs have been challenged on a number of other situations, including I believe Wimbledon.

If you could read I think you'll find I'm actually well aware of a number of the issues you've been talking about, but to suggest that Leeds have been used as a "scapegoat" is that manner is absolute 100% bullshit.

 

[clapham_gull]

I ve done my research buddy ! I don't read anywhere else where the Taxman blocked a club from going through with it's CVA !

Boston? and they've challenged elsewhere in the past. Whether they've been succesful or not is neither here nor there.

 

[billy_bremner]

I'm sorry. but "it's not fair that the taxman wanted his money back" is much of a get out BB. Leeds should pay ther f***ing bills like the rest of us, and your last point seems to indicate why you think you shouldn't honour your debts.

If you look at the FL statement on the penalty you'll see that you were bloody lucky to get permission to play this season. Don't give it the biggun when your club went BUST last season because you couldn't run yourself properly.

Mate , It's not a case of him wanting his money back . It was a case of you pay us as much as you pay the football creditors !

Fair enough , go tell that to the ones who MADE THESE RULES , NOT US ! Don't block us ffs !!

Our club went into bust last season not because we couldn't run ourselves properly. It was because the HMRC issued a winding up order after they wanted a huge bill to be paid IMMEDIATELY instead of their original agreement of it being paid in INSTALLMENTS ( HMRC has always been the villain ) . they were asking such a big fee, we could not pay it and they pushed us into admin therefore as otherwise we would have lost the club !

 

[billy_bremner]

so why did the Leeds management accept it in return for the FL share then? because the rules said you cant be a memeber of the FL and play at all without a CVA in place. but then they side stepped the whole issue with the new company farce which tucked up everyone and left the FL no choice but to offer the share to a new club. so the points are not for no CVA in place, they are in exchange for the club not having to qualify to play in the FL through the traditional FA pyramid route.



funny spin you have there. the revenue didnt accept the CVA because a better offer was available but turned down. They rightly thought that was a little shady so challanged the CVA. I dont think Bates had thougt of that and it left them in a bit of a pickle didnt it?

I had a lot of sympathy for the Leeds fans back in August. i suppose i still do as its not your fault. but Bates and the Leeds managment are taking the f***ing piss and whats started to happen is the fans are siding with them and forgetting they are the ones that created this whole situation in the first place. The best thing the Leeds fans could do is look to extract Bates, not cheer him trying to get back points from the chaos he created.

What better offer are you talking about ? The revenue didn't accept the best offer Bates came up with when compared to other bidders themselves. The best in the history of admin in football according to some people ... I'm not trying to glorify things here but at least we tried our best to give as much as possible.

 

[clapham_gull]

Other clubs where the CVA has been challenged by the Inland Revenue

Exeter and Wimbledon

 

[billy_bremner]

@ Clapham_gull

On all the occasions you are pointing out ,

did the HMRC take the club to court and set a date specifically after the season started ( because we had to receive the golden share before it , if not , we are barred for the season ! ) ..... ??

Answer this mate !

 

[clapham_gull]

Our club went into bust last season not because we couldn't run ourselves properly.

Brilliant

 

[Starry]

there were no better offers because the offshores already said they would not vote to pass anyone but bates and since they held enough to stop the 75% pass rate it became a moot point.

then laterly it became a point of lu07 had paid football creditors in the intermin period and as such the 'preferred' creditor % for a cva pass had altered and hmrc would have been able to veto the cva anyway.

 

[clapham_gull]

@ Clapham_gull

On all the occasions you are pointing out ,

did the HMRC take the club to court and set a date specifically after the season started ( because we had to receive the golden share before it , if not , we are barred for the season ! ) ..... ??

Answer this mate !

That wasn't what you stated. You suggested Leeds were the only ones to suffer at the hands of the Inland Revenue which is gold plated bullshit.

 

[Starry]

agreed clapham.

and it is part of the case from leeds as well.

 

[billy_bremner]

Looks like you don't have an answer for my question !!

 

[beorhthelm]

...HMRC continued with their court bid, and the Football League decided that in the absence of a CVA (impossible whilst the threat of legal action by HMRC was present) decided to implement the 'special circumstances' option and docked Leeds another 15 points - 25 points overall, or put another way 2.5 times the maximum penalty ever given before. Remember that Leeds at this point had paid over £90m of the debt they had owed two years previously.

Once this had happened HMRC dropped their legal action - did they think they would lose, or had they been undone by the Football League's use of special circumstances rule? Who knows, but the one thing that is certain is that Leeds United were just pawns in a game of brinksmanship between the Football League and HMRC.

seem to be inventing a very nice spin on this, i can see why the Leeds fans are getting taken in.

firstly, and i notice this before and from others on the subject, there is a tendancy to see this as an extension of one punishment. it was not. the first 10 point deductuion was for 06/07 season. the second is wholy in respect of the status of the club as of the start of the 07/08 season. come on, Bates took the points hit at the end of the season with a view to going in to this clear of hassle, but that didnt work out.

because, secondly, there is no power struggle between the Revenue and FL. one is a giant, the other a minnow. The revenue could see that there was borderline fraud going on (wasnt one of the compmany directors supposed to be disqualified), KPMG where clearly not acting independantly, Bates offer was derisory and they wanted paying. they dropped the claim on the CVA with the old club because as it ceased trading (presumably), there was nothing to claim against. no assests, no revenue. nothing. the old Leeds no longer exists and a new club has taken its place.

 

[Wardy]

Our club went into bust last season not because we couldn't run ourselves properly. It was because the HMRC issued a winding up order after they wanted a huge bill to be paid IMMEDIATELY instead of their original agreement of it being paid in INSTALLMENTS ( HMRC has always been the villain ) . they were asking such a big fee, we could not pay it and they pushed us into admin therefore as otherwise we would have lost the club !

But if you had paid the bill as you were running it up, then you would not have been given the HUGH bill. The first rule of running a business is pay the tax man, because if you do not, then can make your life hell.

 

[clapham_gull]

Looks like you don't have an answer for my question !!

I have absolutely no idea, but isn't what you stated originally. Go back and read my posts on this subject and I think you're probably directing this at the wrong person.

 

[billy_bremner]

But if you had paid the bill as you were running it up, then you would not have been given the HUGH bill. The first rule of running a business is pay the tax man, because if you do not, then can make your life hell.

Thats debatable mate because neither of us know the real facts about that ! I can only go by what my chairman said and ADMIN was never into question that season and even few days before he decided to do it !

Everything was going smooth according to Bates until the taxman chucked the mutual agreements and asked us to pay a huge chunk of bill within very very short notice .

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Thats debatable mate because neither of us know the real facts about that ! I can only go by what my chairman said and ADMIN was never into question that season and even few days before he decided to do it !

Everything was going smooth according to Bates until the taxman chucked the mutual agreements and asked us to pay a huge chunk of bill within very very short notice .

That is because Ken Bates is never wrong and will certainly not try and shift the blame onto someone else. He loves the people of Leeds. You can see that by offering such reasonable ticket prices and giving the fans an opportunity to own a LUFC radio to listen to his very own radio station.

 

[Wardy]

Thats debatable mate because neither of us know the real facts about that ! I can only go by what my chairman said and ADMIN was never into question that season and even few days before he decided to do it !

Everything was going smooth according to Bates until the taxman chucked the mutual agreements and asked us to pay a huge chunk of bill within very very short notice .

I am not saying I know the full facts, but the fact you had an agreement to pay it back at a set rate, leads me to think that you owed more then you were paying. I am not saying that they were right to go back on that agreement, but if you did not owe them anything then there would not be an agreement to go back on.

It is like borrowing money of a friend. They say pay me back when you have it. If they then change their mind and ask for it back before you have it, it is a right pain, but if you had not borrowed it in the first place then you will not have to pay it back.

 

[Starry]

lol billy. you are going wrong by believing bates. like everyone involved he had his own agenda to push.

 

[clapham_gull]

Thats debatable mate because neither of us know the real facts about that ! I can only go by what my chairman said and ADMIN was never into question that season and even few days before he decided to do it !.

Funny that because even the newspapers were reporting it as a possibility weeks before.

 

[vulture]

for gods sake lets all wait till its confirmed.....before getting our knickers in a twist