Leeds - the fraud that won't go away, MP calls for investigation.

[Dandyman]

Couple of interesting pieces in today's sandal wearers gazette:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/mar/04/david-conn-ken-bates-leeds-ownership


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/mar/04/leeds-united-ken-bates


MP now calling for an investigation and the courts not satisfied with what Bates is claiming. Will the unshaven crook get what he deserves?

 

[Was not Was]

Perhaps Bates's chickens will finally come home to roost. But I've thought that before ...

I would love to see him brought to book. And (unlike how I feel about Luton, Rotherham, etc) if the club suffers with points deductions, relegations, etc, then I won't have sympathy for their fans who - even the normally reasonable ones - have sided with Bates and bought into the idea that they are hard done by.

 

[Starry]

absolutely nothing new there. wouldn't convince a kangaroo court. everyone, willis, morris, the others who are chomping at the bit - they all have this bates is a bastard , a crook, bent, speech he probably is but you have been saying the same for years either pull the trigger and hit the bullseye or shut up.

and was not was i have not sided with bates, voted against him.

 

[Dandyman]

absolutely nothing new there. wouldn't convince a kangaroo court. everyone, willis, morris, the others who are chomping at the bit - they all have this bates is a bastard , a crook, bent, speech he probably is but you have been saying the same for years either pull the trigger and hit the bullseye or shut up.

and was not was i have not sided with bates, voted against him.

Starry, I think the key words are "The court ordered Leeds to disclose who owns Forward Sports Fund, the *company registered in the Cayman Islands which ultimately owns Leeds, and other offshore companies involved when the club went into administration." IMO Bates has stolen from you and other traders around Leeds, the ambulance people and the tax-payer and bheaved with contempt toward football itself. KMPG are also a disgrace. Anything that could lead to any of them being held to account should be applauded.

 

[Pot noodles for everyone]

Why should we shut up? Our club tries to run it's business properly, why should your club and your shifty chairman keep acting with impunity?

If you don't like hearing this then don't go on boards where it's likely to be mentioned.

 

[Starry]

Starry, I think the key words are "The court ordered Leeds to disclose who owns Forward Sports Fund, the *company registered in the Cayman Islands which ultimately owns Leeds, and other offshore companies involved when the club went into administration." IMO Bates has stolen from you and other traders around Leeds, the ambulance people and the tax-payer and bheaved with contempt toward football itself. KMPG are also a disgrace. Anything that could lead to any of them being held to account should be applauded.

kpmg are an absolute disgrace and that whole shambles with the cva was rotten from top to bottom, the bidding should never have carried on as it did. i remember sitting in that room and voting (against bates) and knowing that we were being shafted. for anyone to say i will forfeit nearly £18m of money if you give the club back to whom i say should have (and did, though not with the right people) set the alarm bells ringing. i agree with you, i am just quite sure nothing will change or be done about it.

and pot noodle i wasn't talking about this thread, or people on this forum. heaven knows, i have had plenty of good debate about leeds or bates on here and i like nothing more than that. i was referring to willis and morris and the rest of them who seem to think they have dirt on bates but when it comes down to it have nothing, they need to put up and expose him, but of course they won't because they can't.

 

[London Pompous]

kpmg are an absolute disgrace and that whole shambles with the cva was rotten from top to bottom, the bidding should never have carried on as it did. i remember sitting in that room and voting (against bates) and knowing that we were being shafted. for anyone to say i will forfeit nearly £18m of money if you give the club back to whom i say should have (and did, though not with the right people) set the alarm bells ringing. i agree with you, i am just quite sure nothing will change or be done about it.

and pot noodle i wasn't talking about this thread, or people on this forum. heaven knows, i have had plenty of good debate about leeds or bates on here and i like nothing more than that. i was referring to willis and morris and the rest of them who seem to think they have dirt on bates but when it comes down to it have nothing, they need to put up and expose him, but of course they won't because they can't.

I suspect that KPMG just played by the insolvency rules, which are more of a disgrace than the accountants themselves.

No one in their right mind would write off £17million, but I suspect that Bates is a cunning old fox and covers his tracks very well.

I feel genuinely sorry for proper Leeds fans such as yourself, the Albion may be shite but at least we have a chairman, who, however flawed, genuinely loves the club and is not using it for his own ends to make money (awaits flaming and a flood of people putting me 'right' on this one).

 

[CHAPPERS]

I can't feel sorry for Leeds fans. They had a shit load of debts written off and paid a load of debtors back 10p in the pound and then posted a 4.5 million PROFIT last year.

Ooh, how sorry for them I feel, poor f***ing Leeds.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

Cant stand Bates and I cant stand Leeds so they are made for one another. Bates is usually so cunning, but for Leeds Utd to sue a bloke for money, when Leeds Utd (maybe under a different guise, but still in most peoples minds Leeds Utd) owed you £1.4m was asking for trouble.

Maybe this greed of Bates etc may have undone him. Unlikely, but you can live in hope.

 

[Starry]

it is not quite that straight forward diff brook.

admatch were employed by leeds to print/sell/distribute the season tickets back under krasner and co (two versions of leeds back i think but has been used since) when bates took over leeds (one version of leeds back?) he took on a loan note from melvyn levi who was part of the krasner/morris/adulant mess for £1.4m. those version of leeds are gone and levi and krasner have been wrangling since. levi issued the winding up order. levi is the one bates named and shamed (that whole home address thing) in the programme. the money from admatch was witheld because levi and weston claim they are owed the money though they are owed it from a company that no longer exists.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Starry - Would you want Bates to meet his match even if it were to have dire conseqeunces for Leeds United?

 

[DIFFBROOK]

it is not quite that straight forward diff brook.

admatch were employed by leeds to print/sell/distribute the season tickets back under krasner and co (two versions of leeds back i think but has been used since) when bates took over leeds (one version of leeds back?) he took on a loan note from melvyn levi who was part of the krasner/morris/adulant mess for £1.4m. those version of leeds are gone and levi and krasner have been wrangling since. levi issued the winding up order. levi is the one bates named and shamed (that whole home address thing) in the programme. the money from admatch was witheld because levi and weston claim they are owed the money though they are owed it from a company that no longer exists.

In a sense that my point. Whatever guises Leeds Utd have gone under money has not been paid to individuals. Yet, here they are still smiling and still playing. It maybe all legal (although I suspect some of it unproven as yet is not), but I for one thinks it stinks.

Sorry, but I think football clubs who go into administration should not be able to play in the football league.

 

[bhafc99]

Sorry, but I think football clubs who go into administration should not be able to play in the football league.

… until they've paid everyone they owe in full.

This whole "Oops we owe several million to loads of people, never mind, let's give them all jack shit, shuffle around a few offshore holding companies and act as if it never happened. And gosh look now we're suddenly in profit again, hurrah." attitude stinks.

I'd like to take the Ken Bates approach to paying my mortgage, but somehow I don't the bank would be that happy.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I can't feel sorry for Leeds fans. They had a shit load of debts written off and paid a load of debtors back 10p in the pound and then posted a 4.5 million PROFIT last year.

Ooh, how sorry for them I feel, poor f***ing Leeds.

That in essence cuts to the heart of the whole stinking mess. How anyone cannot see that the whole deal was completely bent from the start I do not know. It is a disgrace given the constraints that other better run clubs live by. This was clearly a stitch up by the incumbent owners of leeds utd to avoid paying back external creditors so they could get on with relaunching the club. I am perfectly sure that these scumbags were devious enough to cover their tracks legally so they will get away with it scot-free. It makes me sick.

The football authorities need to tighten up and simplify the ownership rules of football clubs in this country. At the moment there appear to be plenty of loopholes that the unscrupulous can exploit to the detriment of others, and one can hardly be surprised if they do.

 

[Starry]

Starry - Would you want Bates to meet his match even if it were to have dire conseqeunces for Leeds United?

tough call. i am pretty sure i am done with football, i am ashamed that i was shafted by bates so badly and that that football club has little bearing to the one i supported once upon a time, i have not renewed for next season and doubt that i will go back until at the very least bates is gone. that said, while i would like bates to go through just half the grief we have done thanks to his scheming i find it hard to be too vindictive, just not my nature. i wouldn't want the club to suffer but at the same time i don't like bates to walk away with his pockets stuffed with my money.

i don't know is the answer to that question which is pretty sad on one level because a few years ago i would have said no right away - i want leeds to be ok at any cost and sad on another because why should a business and that is what leeds is, thrive on the back of bent dealings.


and i agree absolutely with your last post diffbrook. the system sucks. but the fl do not want to change the rulebook. the whole system stinks.

 

[portslade seagull]

The FL haven't got the guts to change anything

 

[withdeanwombat]

My belief is that nothing will come of this.The whole episode is a festering heap of dung which some people hope will be forgotten as time passes.

But it will be remembered by a lot of football supporters and will always mark Leeds United out as crooks - the mark of Bates - and will be an albatross around the club's neck.

I know many folk despise Leeds fans for the cunning and sly way in which the club now appears to be prospering when really like other bankrupt clubs that should not be.But loads of Leeds fans just want to watch the football,and march on together and that, and the way in which their club has arrived in its current position probably doesn't bother them one little bit.

And there will be a lot of folk who lost money on this (and as a taxpayer in a way I'm one),and as Skybet says,"it matters more when there's money on it".

But nothing new will happen.