Lecturer's strike March 8th

[dougdeep]

I'd never strike because I was told to.

 

[chip]

The AUT are a bunch of complete tosspots who do not now serve the interests of the majority of academics. Hence the majority of academics are not members of the AUT.

A half decent academic can will earn about £50K and should be able to create other income sources. The pension provision is still good as the employer contributes 13.5% and the employee 6.35% and USS is still in surplus. In reality, the AUT is now no longer the sole negotiating body for academics and most will agree their own deal (if they are any good).

So, no

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I'll be crossing the picket line....

Your dad will be disgusted.

 

[fatbadger]

A half decent academic can will earn about £50K and should be able to create other income sources.

I'm assuming that's a joke, albeit a very dull one. It certainly isn't a serious comment.

I would agree, however, that the AUT are bloody useless - they caved in over the last strike and Sally Hunt (Gen Sec) is now the subject of rhyming slang. The problem is, the other main lecturers' union, NATFHE (which only really represents lecturers in the 1992 universities) was even worse - they effectively broke the strike, being total cowards.

 

[chip]

I'm assuming that's a joke, albeit a very dull one. It certainly isn't a serious comment.

I would agree, however, that the AUT are bloody useless - they caved in over the last strike and Sally Hunt (Gen Sec) is now the subject of rhyming slang. The problem is, the other main lecturers' union, NATFHE (which only really represents lecturers in the 1992 universities) was even worse - they effectively broke the strike, being total cowards.

No, I'm absolutely serious. Given 10 years experience a half decent academic in a proper university should earn ~£50K, that is the top of the SL scale. With additional responsibility points that can go up to £56K.

Editorships, consultancy and patents can easily add another £20-40K. So, no joke just reality.

 

[fatbadger]

No, I'm absolutely serious. Given 10 years experience a half decent academic in a proper university should earn ~£50K, that is the top of the SL scale. With additional responsibility points that can go up to £56K.

Editorships, consultancy and patents can easily add another £20-40K. So, no joke just reality.

On the first point: the large majority of academics at more than half decent, but less than half of them - for the simple reason of the way promotions work - cannot get to the top of SL (otherwise depts would be top-heavy). It cannot be considered serious comment to say that depts either will want to be, or can afford to be, top-heavy like that.

On the second point: such add-ons are only available in a small number of desciplines. Yes, a less-than-half-decent Accountancy lecturer can make a lot of money in add-ons, but very few in the Arts (despite teaching the most popular subjects) can. The idea that even a substantial minority of lecturers can make £20-40K in add-ons is completely absurd.

 

[Skintagain 1983]

Oi Badger .. watch the blood pressure... You need to be fighting fit for your new arrival.

And get your location updated... You've been chased out of Alva now and don't you forget it!

You're a west coast Splitter!!

Anyway good luck to those taking industrial action over pensions. You have my 100% support.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Who will be supporting the industrial action on Tuesday?

edit: misleading thread title... the one day strike is Tuesday March 7th - the more significant assessment boycott begins on March 8th

I guess the world will still keep on turning somehow

 

[Skintagain 1983]

And get your location updated... You've been chased out of Alva now and don't you forget it!

You're a west coast Splitter!!

Fatbadger...

You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore
You're not Clackmannanshire anymore

Sorted!

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Bugger - one of my lecturers isnt striking, so i have one lecture on tuesday

 

[Bry Nylon]

...so i have one lecture on tuesday [/B]

 

[perseus]

Come on the Acciies !!!


Hamilton will play Dundee for a place in the semi-final of the Scottish Cup on the seventh, snow permitting.

 

[chip]

On the first point: the large majority of academics at more than half decent, but less than half of them - for the simple reason of the way promotions work - cannot get to the top of SL (otherwise depts would be top-heavy). It cannot be considered serious comment to say that depts either will want to be, or can afford to be, top-heavy like that.

On the second point: such add-ons are only available in a small number of desciplines. Yes, a less-than-half-decent Accountancy lecturer can make a lot of money in add-ons, but very few in the Arts (despite teaching the most popular subjects) can. The idea that even a substantial minority of lecturers can make £20-40K in add-ons is completely absurd.

If you look at the staff lists on the internet for any decent engineering or science department at a university such as Sheffield, Southampton, Bristol, Bath, Imperial, Loughborough, Kings College, etc., then you will see that most of the academics are SL or above. Progression on the scale is to the top, it cannot be capped at a particular point so all SLs will reach ~£50K. This has been the case in the four 5* departments that I have worked in in England and Wales. So it is a serious comment and also factual. The universities have to pay market rates. Imperial and Southampton pay more than some others to attract better staff at these lower levels. You are peddling the AUT rubbish that has be shown to be fabrication and half truth.

Academics are not paid on the basis of teaching as this is only < 25% of their workload in a quality institution and you know that. The remainder is spent on scholarly research or money earning for the institution.

The AUT does not want good universities to be able to pay good staff more or offset the additional cost of living for some locations. Why should a lecturer at Southampton have to earn the same as one at Huddersfield poly? the instiutions are worlds apart as are the costs of living. Fortunately, most decent universities have see this and are prepared to reward on the basis of ability and work done while reflecting the value of the individual academic. Hence, a good scientist who may make over £100K pa in industry will settle for £60K + other benefits in a university.

The AUT does not recognise this and that is why it is probably mainly full of poor arts type academics from substandard institutions. It is also why some top research universities, such as Nottingham, have abandonded negotiations with them. I hope the ones that refuse to mark students work are sacked for breach of contract.

If the AUT actually campaigned to reintroduce FREE education and maintainence grants then it would be doing something useful. A campaign to increase the pay of substandard academics is clearly bound to fail.

Rant over

 

[CHAPPERS]

Well. The strike was evident at 9am, stopped on the way through. They left by lunch time. I do wonder what is was all really about. To me, it seemed a tad weak but never mind.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Well, i supported the strike and bunked off that one for good measure!

 

[fatbadger]

If you look at the staff lists on the internet for any decent engineering or science department at a university such as Sheffield, Southampton, Bristol, Bath, Imperial, Loughborough, Kings College, etc., then you will see that most of the academics are SL or above. Progression on the scale is to the top, it cannot be capped at a particular point so all SLs will reach ~£50K. This has been the case in the four 5* departments that I have worked in in England and Wales. So it is a serious comment and also factual.

So you are talking about a small area (like it or not) of academic activity in a small number of universities. Hm.

No wonder you have a skewed view of academia if you cannot look beyond the departments you have worked in. Jeez.

Take a wider look, and you will see that your comments were indeed utterly ridiculous. Look at Arts departments - in any university - and you will see an enormous difference. I'm pleased for you that scientists and engineers can make money outside of universities, but they certainly can't in the large majority of subjects. Now that's a simple fact. Money for editorships? If only.

I'm gobsmacked if science departments are indeed so top-heavy. And I'm gobsmacked that SLs in the science departments get 50K. No wonder they are such a massive drain on resources and have to be yearly bailed out by top-slicing the Arts departments (as has happened at every institution I have worked in, which includes two Russell Group universities with world-famous reputations in science).

I do, however, totally agree with your complaints about the AUT's failure to campaign as hard as it could do on the issues that matter - such as the need for free education. As far as I am concerned, the AUT under Sally Hunt has been little short of a disgrace when it comes to a genuine struggle for a better approach to higher education in this country - they are toothless and much too focussed on the direct needs of their members rather than the wider picture facing the sector as a whole. Having said that, they at least have been a lot more supportive of the students than the truly pathetic NUS has been at supporting the staff.