[News] Leaving Neverland- Michael Jackson documentary

[Worthing exile]

To me, these accusations would carry far more weight if the accusers clearly stated they were after justice and didn't want any money at all.

 

[GT49er]

The father was the dentist.

his dad took him to the dentists to put him under anaesthetic "

......just quoting.....

 

[SeagullNoob]

To me, these accusations would carry far more weight if the accusers clearly stated they were after justice and didn't want any money at all.

Sad state of the times that money rules everything. We will never know the true accusations due to that. If any were true. Maybe he was the boy who never grew up. But I doubt it, hearing all those videos on YouTube with his real voice, plus the emergency call. He had some deep voice , but that's another story.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Wilko]

I was very anti-MJ at the time of all of the allegations, but am now not as convinced as I was. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in the thread, but there are a lot of videos kicking about that were filmed during the Bashir interview, as well as recording from the father of the original allegations. It's shocking how diferently the Bashir programme was shown in comparison to what was actually said and filmed. As I suppose you would expect, it was cut to be highly provocative. In the tapes from the conversations with the father, he is asking Michael, as a friend, for money. Eventually he threatens to blackmail him with an abuse story. Which is exactly what he did. There are plenty of videos of the child adamently declaring, for a long time, that MJ never touched him inappropriately. Eventually he changes his story.

Don't get me wrong, Michael Jackson is not right, he was properly weird and in my opinion quite likely he was up to something dodgy. But we do not know that and there is no evidence. The only people ever suggesting things are all chasing money, after previously defending Micael. There were a lot of kids that used to hang out with him (very weird), and nearly all of them defend him.

I think Michael Jackson was very troubled, abused by his father, misled and betrayed by people he trusted and quite possibly a padeophile. I would never have let my children near him. I also think Bashir is a total **** and the people accusing Michael now are possibly abused children, but more likely they are liars trying to get some cash.

Your margin may vary.

I've not watched the new documentary yet but I certainly remember my GUT feel at the time of the first Bashir doc.

I'm willing to accept that maybe I am biased towards a brilliant musician but my over riding feeling was:

He was SO open about the fact that he shared his bed with these kids that it actually seemed ludicrous that he was up to something 'weird'. In my mind, if you were up to something DODGY there would be an element of secrecy or at least not openly declaring it. He was doing quite the opposite and then seemed surprised that someone would question it. That to me smacked of someone who had MAJOR issues stemming from his mental childhood but was just suffering with a complete naivity to how his actions might be perceived.

Now, I'm willing to accept that I may well have been COMPLETELY stupid and have fallen for the most ridiculous lie, but I can only go on my gut feeling at the time of watching. Not one part of me then or now thought "he's touching those kids". The fact that, almost immediately, allegations started coming out (led by a VERY dodgy mother) just smacked of people jumping on a chance.

Again, this was my gut feeling. I can accept if I was wrong. I hope I'm not.

If these allegations are false then these two are some of the best actors of their time and have an amazing imagination to dream up the things that Jackon supposedly did to them, they have also managed to talk their family into going along with said stories.

Even if we allow for some elaboration and exaggeration, the fact that Jackson has fully admitted that he shared a bed with these young boys is surely enough on its own to merit calling him out on what he is. Musical genius or not, just wanting to share a bed with a young child in the manner that he did is deplorable.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I, the fact that Jackson has fully admitted that he shared a bed with these young boys is surely enough on its own to merit calling him out on what he is. .

I'm not sure it is

 

[daveinplzen]

Kevin Spacey plays a President on TV and loses his job due to being charged with groping. A real President admits he gropes, and is still President. Thats the world we now live in.
Its a difficult subject though. I love MJ's music. Always will. I love R Kellys music, always will. I have to separate the issues. I cant see me not playing their music anymore.
A lot of music brings back happy memories. Im not prepared to forfeit those memories tbh.

 

[Triggaaar]

his dad took him to the dentists to put him under anaesthetic "

......just quoting.....

I don't know where you're quoting from, but it probably means his dad took him to his dental practice. Given that his dad was a dentist, it's unlikely he's going to go somewhere else and say 'excuse me sir, do you mind drugging my child for questioning'.

 

[Triggaaar]

I was very anti-MJ at the time of all of the allegations, but am now not as convinced as I was. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in the thread, but there are a lot of videos kicking about that were filmed during the Bashir interview, as well as recording from the father of the original allegations. It's shocking how diferently the Bashir programme was shown in comparison to what was actually said and filmed. As I suppose you would expect, it was cut to be highly provocative. In the tapes from the conversations with the father, he is asking Michael, as a friend, for money. Eventually he threatens to blackmail him with an abuse story. Which is exactly what he did. There are plenty of videos of the child adamently declaring, for a long time, that MJ never touched him inappropriately. Eventually he changes his story.

Did you see the program last night? The father who brought the allegations in '93 was a tw@. The truth of that story does not take away from the other children he also abused.

Don't get me wrong, Michael Jackson is not right, he was properly weird and in my opinion quite likely he was up to something dodgy. But we do not know that and there is no evidence.

There is evidence - the people who he raped say that he raped them. That's evidence, and would be more than enough to put someone away.

The only people ever suggesting things are all chasing money, after previously defending Micael.

The people defending him are defending their money.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

There is evidence - the people who he raped say that he raped them. That's evidence, and would be more than enough to put someone away.

Wow. For the sake of the innocent people accused of rape, I'd hope that wasn't the case.

 

[Triggaaar]

He was SO open about the fact that he shared his bed with these kids that it actually seemed ludicrous that he was up to something 'weird'. In my mind, if you were up to something DODGY there would be an element of secrecy or at least not openly declaring it. He was doing quite the opposite and then seemed surprised that someone would question it.

From Jimmy Savile's autobiography:

He said:
“A high-ranking lady police officer came in one night and showed me a picture of an attractive girl who had run away from a remand home.

“‘Ah,’ says I all serious, ‘if she comes in I’ll bring her back tomorrow but I’ll keep her all night first as my reward’.
Savile describes how the girl came to one of his dances that evening and stayed the night with him before he handed her over.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/jimmy-saviles-autobiography-shock-as-pages-1359536

 

[Triggaaar]

Wow. For the sake of the innocent people accused of rape, I'd hope that wasn't the case.

Innocent people accused of rape don't tend to have several people accusing them of the same thing, with decades worth of counseling to back up their story.

 

[symyjym]

To me, these accusations would carry far more weight if the accusers clearly stated they were after justice and didn't want any money at all.

Would you claim that you performed oral sex on Jackson to make some money. There are better things to go down in history for, excuse the pun.

They could have quite easily made money writing autobiographical accounts on touring with him as children and their experience at Neverland in the good old days if he was innocent, so money couldn't be a motive. They can't exactly sue Jackson.

 

[Worthing exile]

Would you claim that you performed oral sex on Jackson to make some money. There are better things to go down in history for, excuse the pun.

They could have quite easily made money writing autobiographical accounts on touring with him as children and their experience at Neverland in the good old days if he was innocent, so money couldn't be a motive. They can't exactly sue Jackson.

I thought I read somewhere that one of them had written a book about his youth but it had flopped?

 

[symyjym]

I thought I read somewhere that one of them had written a book about his youth but it had flopped?

Probably because he only wrote about 10% of the real story and avoided the sexual relationship details.

 

[Wilko]

I was very anti-MJ at the time of all of the allegations, but am now not as convinced as I was. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in the thread, but there are a lot of videos kicking about that were filmed during the Bashir interview, as well as recording from the father of the original allegations. It's shocking how diferently the Bashir programme was shown in comparison to what was actually said and filmed. As I suppose you would expect, it was cut to be highly provocative. In the tapes from the conversations with the father, he is asking Michael, as a friend, for money. Eventually he threatens to blackmail him with an abuse story. Which is exactly what he did. There are plenty of videos of the child adamently declaring, for a long time, that MJ never touched him inappropriately. Eventually he changes his story.

Don't get me wrong, Michael Jackson is not right, he was properly weird and in my opinion quite likely he was up to something dodgy. But we do not know that and there is no evidence. The only people ever suggesting things are all chasing money, after previously defending Micael. There were a lot of kids that used to hang out with him (very weird), and nearly all of them defend him.

I think Michael Jackson was very troubled, abused by his father, misled and betrayed by people he trusted and quite possibly a padeophile. I would never have let my children near him. I also think Bashir is a total **** and the people accusing Michael now are possibly abused children, but more likely they are liars trying to get some cash.

Your margin may vary.

I'm not sure it is

Really? Is it acceptable for a grown man to share a bed with a 7 year old boy he is not related to?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Really? Is it acceptable for a grown man to share a bed with a 7 year old boy he is not related to?

No. I think we all know that.

Not quite sure where you think I stated it was......

 

[lawros left foot]

Kevin Spacey plays a President on TV and loses his job due to being charged with groping. A real President admits he gropes, and is still President. Thats the world we now live in.
Its a difficult subject though. I love MJ's music. Always will. I love R Kellys music, always will. I have to separate the issues. I cant see me not playing their music anymore.
A lot of music brings back happy memories. Im not prepared to forfeit those memories tbh.

It’s a difficult one, his music is obviously a large part of some people’s lives, and he has got iconic status through that, but, Gary Glitter and Jonathan King are both treated as pariahs musically, for similar offences. Chuck Berry , on the other hand, is still recognised as a genius, and even had an obituary from Batak Obama after his death. He was a serial sex offender, doing time for it in the Sixties, and being found guilty again in 1989.

Is our, as a society, more forgiving stance to Berry, than Glitter and King due to his music being far better, and theirs being pants?
If so, then I imagine we will still be hearing Jackson’s music for a long time.

 

[Steve.S]

I think people won’t stop listening to his music, however I have a feeling radio stations will drop him from their play lists. A lot will depend on what follows these allegations, if more people come forward then he will be wiped from history as far as his music is concerned. However if it’s just these two then who knows.

 

[symyjym]

It’s a difficult one, his music is obviously a large part of some people’s lives, and he has got iconic status through that, but, Gary Glitter and Jonathan King are both treated as pariahs musically, for similar offences. Chuck Berry , on the other hand, is still recognised as a genius, and even had an obituary from Batak Obama after his death. He was a serial sex offender, doing time for it in the Sixties, and being found guilty again in 1989.

Is our, as a society, more forgiving stance to Berry, than Glitter and King due to his music being far better, and theirs being pants?
If so, then I imagine we will still be hearing Jackson’s music for a long time.

Non of the artists you mention were a big part of my life tbf. I think you will find that after last night's revelations, broadcasting MJ's songs and using his music for adverts and soundtracks will drop to zero, and anyone who is torn and emotionally attached to his music will take it with them when they pass over. I think future generations will recover without him on a playlist and he will only be immortalised as a curiosity because there is plenty of good music out there.

All of his dance moves involved crouch grabbing and hip thrusting so it was never really suitable for a family audience anyway.

 

[GT49er]

I don't know where you're quoting from, but it probably means his dad took him to his dental practice. Given that his dad was a dentist, it's unlikely he's going to go somewhere else and say 'excuse me sir, do you mind drugging my child for questioning'.

I'm quoting (a copy and paste actually) from the post to which I originally replied.