[Help] Leasehold flat electrical permissions help please!

[Originunknown]

I had a friend who made some minor repairs to their leasehold flat without seeking the freeholders approval first. They improved the property but were perused for a penalty sum as they had not sought approval prior to completing the work.

This came about when they tried to sell the property.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I had a friend who made some minor repairs to their leasehold flat without seeking the freeholders approval first. They improved the property but were perused for a penalty sum as they had not sought approval prior to completing the work.

This came about when they tried to sell the property.

I've got to ask having been in the property development business - how did the freeholder know ? They don't inspect inside properties when sold. Or are you talking about the landlord ? i.e. the person that owned the leasehold ?

 

[Originunknown]

I've got to ask having been in the property development business - how did the freeholder know ? They don't inspect inside properties when sold. Or are you talking about the landlord ? i.e. the person that owned the leasehold ?

Yes the person who owned the leasehold found out when the property was sold, it was someone local to Brighton. It wasn't a company. May have come about when they needed to extend lease prior to selling, owner may have even naively told them of the works.

Owner had repaired windows and moved/changed an internal wall.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes the person who owned the leasehold found out when the property was sold, it was someone local to Brighton. It wasn't a company. May have come about when they needed to extend lease prior to selling, owner may have even naively told them of the works.

Owner had repaired windows and moved/changed an internal wall.

That's fine then - [MENTION=3462]Springal[/MENTION] is buying the lease so no problems.

 

[Originunknown]

That's fine then - [MENTION=3462]Springal[/MENTION] is buying the lease so no problems.

The example I gave, the owner who did the works had the lease too. They needed to extend prior to selling and were penalised by the freeholder for changing the property. They were in breach of the lease and it was a few thousand pounds to settle.

In any case I hope it all works out for the OP as I know they had been trying to buy a property for some time so congratulations.

 

[spongy]

The example I gave, the owner who did the works had the lease too. They needed to extend prior to selling and were penalised by the freeholder for changing the property. They were in breach of the lease and it was a few thousand pounds to settle.

In any case I hope it all works out for the OP as I know they had been trying to buy a property for some time so congratulations.

In our case we have to pay a fee for the license to do works which is just I feel like a money grabbing exercise for admin work. Because we will be applying post works there is a surcharge on top of that.

£150. Total cost including surcharge.

 

[Springal]

In our case we have to pay a fee for the license to do works which is just I feel like a money grabbing exercise for admin work. Because we will be applying post works there is a surcharge on top of that.

£150. Total cost including surcharge.

Welcome to the world of management companies ! I used to work with Clarion and there is a reason they are a £800m+ business

 

[Curious Orange]

Welcome to the world of management companies ! I used to work with Clarion and there is a reason they are a £800m+ business

Even owning the freehold doesn't always get you around that sort of scam. Because there are covenants on houses in my area we were obliged to ask permission to build an extension to our our house from a separate part of the Borough Council to the planning department before putting in the planning application - Their response, having taken their admin charge, was of course that'd be fine if we get planning permission from the planning department!

 

[spongy]

Is lowering the ceiling absolutely essential or is it just for downlights? Are you losing any existing coving details etc. or is the existing ceiling in poor repair? Could wiring be rodded through existing voids about the existing ceiling? Plenty of really decent surface mounted downlight fittings out there, and the sparks should have a decent set of carbon fibre rods to thread wiring round an existing ceiling if it was an option and a lot less work / expense.

We are first floor so have concrete floors and ceilings. The original electrics were installed in conduits and then plastered in. We have no way of knowing where they go, how many corners, any junction boxes etc hidden that will make re-pulling them impossible.

It's trade off between having a sparks charge more and struggle re using existing conduits if it's possible or running above a new ceiling and having it boarded over, if we're boarding over it makes sense to put spotlights in whilst we're at it as the ceilings are quite low anyway.

The flat is a 1960's build that still has original wiring and sockets. There is only a single socket on each side of the living room and the main bedroom. The other 2 bedrooms just have one single socket.

Which I think is completely unsuitable for today's modern age of everything being electric.

The kitchen has had extra sockets installed but the route is in trunking down the hallway and over the ceiling to get to the fuseboard.

For the amount of extra sockets and to hide the existing trunking the easiest solution is to drop the ceilings 50mm to allow for new cabling to the positions and only chase down the walls to position.

For the record I hate visible trunking and want things hidden away.

The Mrs is now panicking and in tears on the phone as she is adamant we are not allowed to drop the ceiling height due to a clause in our lease.

I keep telling her it's going to be OK and we can gain retrospective permission.

Here is the offending paragraph.... I'm confident battening and re boarding a 50mm drop does constitute a change in structural height of the room/building. It's a cosmetic change NOT a structural one so therefore does not need prior permission....

What do people think?

 

[Springal]

What does your solicitor say / think ?

I don't think that wording would worry me in relation to what you want to do.

 

[spongy]

What does your solicitor say / think ?

I don't think that wording would worry me in relation to what you want to do.

I'm phoning them as soon as they open.

 

[maltaseagull]

I am surprised over two things about this.

If the building is leasehold, how is the freeholder allowed to have such old and probably illegal electrics or do the rules only apply to rented property?

Also, was there a mortgage involved?
Surely the lender would insist on upgrading as a condition of the loan?

 

[Bold Seagull]

[MENTION=20792]spongy[/MENTION], makes sense then with the construction you have there. I have seen some really nice wiring done in galv tubing, if you Google images search it can look really nice. Not everyone’s taste but given it’s surface mounted and effectively could be removed, would it take away some of the worries with larger scale works to ceilings etc?

 

[B-right-on]

I'm phoning them as soon as they open.

They can only advise you to get the permissions beforehand. Be legally suspect for them to say anything else.

 

[Bold Seagull]

They can only advise you to get the permissions beforehand. Be legally suspect for them to say anything else.

That's true, but a good solicitor can also advise you on the consequences and the likelihood / risk of them happening should you choose to ignore their advice.

 

[B-right-on]

That's true, but a good solicitor can also advise you on the consequences and the likelihood / risk of them happening should you choose to ignore their advice.

True

 

[B-right-on]

In our case we have to pay a fee for the license to do works which is just I feel like a money grabbing exercise for admin work. Because we will be applying post works there is a surcharge on top of that.

£150. Total cost including surcharge.

It comes down to the fact that is the surcharge worth paying to get all of the work done beforehand or not.

Not only for the mess and inconvenience for you if you live there, but the added costs The quotes would be based on an empty property, one with furniture etc... Would increase the cost as it takes time to move stuff around and its harder.

One more days labour of the sparks and / or plasterer would be more than the surcharge I would guess.

 

[Stat Brother]

[MENTION=20792]spongy[/MENTION], makes sense then with the construction you have there. I have seen some really nice wiring done in galv tubing, if you Google images search it can look really nice. Not everyone’s taste but given it’s surface mounted and effectively could be removed, would it take away some of the worries with larger scale works to ceilings etc?

But what does it look like in a 'normal' home?

I'd love to move away from the norm, but I ain't no Kevin McCloud.


I can't see something like working in my house.
I'm currently in the process of moving and can't see it working in my (hopefully) future home, either.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But what does it look like in a 'normal' home?

I'd love to move away from the norm, but I ain't no Kevin McCloud.

I can't see something like working in my house.
I'm currently in the process of moving and can't see it working in my (hopefully) future home, either.

I didn't say it was to everyone's taste, or that it would be normal, BUT, if you've got other issues at hand, with a bit of creative thought about routes and wiring, as a brave design decision it can look v good imho. My lights in my kitchen are actually connected with it at ceiling level because it was going to be a complete ball-ache to try to do it in the ceiling void without wrecking the ceiling. The wife took some convincing but she loves it now. I would have done more to sockets as I knew chasing our old walls was going to lead to plaster falling off, but wasn't brave enough at the time. Now though looking at it I think it would have been fine. My sparks was also into using it and has been doing more and more of it in domestic work. I do think you need to make decision compromises though, such as where you might have sockets spread around a room, you might go for just 1 or 2 places, same with light switches; going 2 or 3 way with switches means there is a lot of cable to run back and forth - so I think going the conduit route is keeping the wiring very simple.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Congratulations [MENTION=20792]spongy[/MENTION] on getting your mortgage. Nice one!

Bearing in mind the angst you were going through on here just a couple of months ago, are you sure you want to heap all this further stress on yourself by flying headlong into lowering ceilings, plastering, worrying over retrospective permission etc. Appreciate that everybody's different, but if that were me I'd be inclined to kick back for a little while in my new home before tackling the permissions and planning and scheduling the work. You've got all the time in the world now. Anvways, good luck with whatever you decide to do and hope you and your family really enjoy your new home. Cheers