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[Albion] Leandro Trossard SIGNS ON A FOUR-YEAR DEAL







Icy Gull

Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Bold Seagull said:
I'm not sure I believe some of this Southgate stuff. Maguire had barely made his Leicester debut when he got called up based on his performances for Hull. Southgate's probably given more caps to players outside the top teams than I can remember any England manager doing - include Dunk. Last international; Rice, Philips, Coady, Bowen, Pickford, Kane - none of them play for big clubs. Maguire was made by England to become a MU player, not the other way round.

I wouldn't say any of our players have been ignored. Webster needs to stay fit enough to have a run of consistent games for his club before he is in the reckoning, no bias there, I wouldn't have him in yet. Dunk has faults that probably our striped tinted glasses don't always see.

You can level a lot of things at Southgate, but he's bought a lot of young players through from a range of clubs and backgrounds.
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Other than Villa and Palace players ( both of whom he played for), who has he brought in from a non BIG club? Genuine question

WHU, Leeds, Wolves, Everton and Spurs are all perceived as big clubs imo
 






Papa Lazarou

Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
19,360
Worthing
His first goal was pretty much identical to the goal he scored v Wolves away this season.
 




The Fits

The Fits

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
10,106
I think we are at peak risk of losing him this summer. His form was great at the end of the season and that goal is headline grabbing. Can imagine one of the bigger teams taking a punt.
 










Papa Lazarou

Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
19,360
Worthing
The Fits said:
I think we are at peak risk of losing him this summer. His form was great at the end of the season and that goal is headline grabbing. Can imagine one of the bigger teams taking a punt.
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Danny Wilson Said said:
It would have to be a pretty big punt, I'd say ...
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Yep. Peak risk, but peak price. So, it's not all bad.
 


Stato

Stato

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2011
7,367
Bold Seagull said:
Dunk has faults that probably our striped tinted glasses don't always see.
Click to expand...

More faults than John Stones, Tyrone Mings, Conor Coady, Michael Keane, James Tarkowski, Marc Guehi, Fikayo Tomori, Ben White? All who have been given more chances than one meaningless friendly against America when Maguire was injured. It's nothing to do with the faults in his game. They all have them. No player is perfect and most of these have more faults than Dunk. Its obvious that his face didn't fit. I've always wondered if its something to do with Maguire. He is Southgate's favourite and I definitely get the feeling from on field encounters that he and Dunk don't much like each other.

Bold Seagull said:
You can level a lot of things at Southgate, but he's bought a lot of young players through from a range of clubs and backgrounds.
Click to expand...

I'd give you a range of clubs, but not a range of backgrounds. If you come through the age range teams you are massively more likely to get a chance and then further chances from Southgate. The most recent squad of 25 had only Nick Pope, Kalvin Phillips and Jarrod Bowen that didn't have age range caps. Although Declan Rice's were of course with Ireland. Only 8 of 43 players called up in the last 12 months hadn't been picked at U21,U18 etc.

I'm not saying this approach is necessarily wrong. I think that the fact that he picks players who are familiar with international tournament football does contribute to us looking more at home in tournaments during his tenure. All I'm saying is that you are far less likely to be picked if you didn't come through their system.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,463
Hove
Icy Gull said:
Other than Villa and Palace players ( both of whom he played for), who has he brought in from a non BIG club? Genuine question

WHU, Leeds, Wolves, Everton and Spurs are all perceived as big clubs imo
Click to expand...

So basically what you're saying, is that along with Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, we add WHU, Leeds, Wolves, Everton, Spurs and presumably Leicester, and Villa & Palace due to playing connections, that actually leaves just 7 clubs from the top flight, 3 of whom regularly change every season. What you're really asking, is who has he picked from Brighton, Burnley, Southampton or Newcastle?

Dunk, White, Ward-Prowse, Cork, Forster, McCarthy, Redmond, Walker-Peters, Tarkowski, Ings, Pope, Bertrand, Keane....
 


Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
13,527
tokyo
Stato said:
More faults than John Stones, Tyrone Mings, Conor Coady, Michael Keane, James Tarkowski, Marc Guehi, Fikayo Tomori, Ben White? All who have been given more chances than one meaningless friendly against America when Maguire was injured. It's nothing to do with the faults in his game. They all have them. No player is perfect and most of these have more faults than Dunk. Its obvious that his face didn't fit. I've always wondered if its something to do with Maguire. He is Southgate's favourite and I definitely get the feeling from on field encounters that he and Dunk don't much like each other.



I'd give you a range of clubs, but not a range of backgrounds. If you come through the age range teams you are massively more likely to get a chance and then further chances from Southgate. The most recent squad of 25 had only Nick Pope, Kalvin Phillips and Jarrod Bowen that didn't have age range caps. Although Declan Rice's were of course with Ireland. Only 8 of 43 players called up in the last 12 months hadn't been picked at U21,U18 etc.

I'm not saying this approach is necessarily wrong. I think that the fact that he picks players who are familiar with international tournament football does contribute to us looking more at home in tournaments during his tenure. All I'm saying is that you are far less likely to be picked if you didn't come through their system.
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That's pretty interesting. Do you have the stats for previous years/managers? It feels like there never used to be a whole lot of progression from the U-21s to the seniors.

It'd also be interesting to see if there's a link between the clubs spending more on academies and the increase, if there is one, of U-21s becoming full internationals.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,463
Hove
Stato said:
More faults than John Stones, Tyrone Mings, Conor Coady, Michael Keane, James Tarkowski, Marc Guehi, Fikayo Tomori, Ben White? All who have been given more chances than one meaningless friendly against America when Maguire was injured. It's nothing to do with the faults in his game. They all have them. No player is perfect and most of these have more faults than Dunk. Its obvious that his face didn't fit. I've always wondered if its something to do with Maguire. He is Southgate's favourite and I definitely get the feeling from on field encounters that he and Dunk don't much like each other.
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Guehi only has 1 cap, Tarkowski and Tomori only have 1 more than Dunk at 2 caps. My argument isn't that Southgate doesn't make mistakes in selection or talent spotting, just that I don't think it's done with some malice against a rival to a club he once played for, or favours a particular club over another. Fact is players who get European experience and more games playing in Europe will get on the radar more.
 






M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,770
Fiveways
Stato said:
More faults than John Stones, Tyrone Mings, Conor Coady, Michael Keane, James Tarkowski, Marc Guehi, Fikayo Tomori, Ben White? All who have been given more chances than one meaningless friendly against America when Maguire was injured. It's nothing to do with the faults in his game. They all have them. No player is perfect and most of these have more faults than Dunk. Its obvious that his face didn't fit. I've always wondered if its something to do with Maguire. He is Southgate's favourite and I definitely get the feeling from on field encounters that he and Dunk don't much like each other.



I'd give you a range of clubs, but not a range of backgrounds. If you come through the age range teams you are massively more likely to get a chance and then further chances from Southgate. The most recent squad of 25 had only Nick Pope, Kalvin Phillips and Jarrod Bowen that didn't have age range caps. Although Declan Rice's were of course with Ireland. Only 8 of 43 players called up in the last 12 months hadn't been picked at U21,U18 etc.

I'm not saying this approach is necessarily wrong. I think that the fact that he picks players who are familiar with international tournament football does contribute to us looking more at home in tournaments during his tenure. All I'm saying is that you are far less likely to be picked if you didn't come through their system.
Click to expand...

I think it is to do with Maguire, and have been saying so for a long time. They're extremely similar players in terms of their skill sets. They are both slow. You get punished for lack of pace at international level. It means that you can't push high up the pitch or, if you do, you run the risk of an opponent having a free run on goal. I think it'd be disastrous if Southgate picked both Dunk and Maguire. I can see the value of him picking Dunk instead of Maguire, alongside a pacy CB. But Southgate backs Maguire, and he hasn't really let him down in an England shirt (although I'll caveat that statement by saying that I only watch England in major tournaments).
 


J

JonnyCLately

Active member
Jan 16, 2018
314
Shoreham by sea
Stato said:
More faults than John Stones, Tyrone Mings, Conor Coady, Michael Keane, James Tarkowski, Marc Guehi, Fikayo Tomori, Ben White? All who have been given more chances than one meaningless friendly against America when Maguire was injured. It's nothing to do with the faults in his game. They all have them. No player is perfect and most of these have more faults than Dunk. Its obvious that his face didn't fit. I've always wondered if its something to do with Maguire. He is Southgate's favourite and I definitely get the feeling from on field encounters that he and Dunk don't much like each other.
Click to expand...

I've wondered if the beef may be more with Kane after their flare ups - recall Kane grabbing Dunk's nuts in one encounter. They definitely don't like each other
 










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