'Leadership' 'election' 'debates'

[Gullflyinghigh]

Do we ?.... I beleive most people vote for the party/leader rather than there local MP....

Exactly what will screw Labour again this time around.

A fair point.

If I were to re-phrase it; our votes count for the local seat, not towards some cumulative total that puts an individual in No.10

I'm aware that many people do vote for the leader, rather than the local prospect, I just think it's a shame that they do, having these debates won't do anything but encourage it either.

 

[somerset]

Can someone provide a justification for how Cameron has turned the leadership election debates (with each term devoid of inverted commas/scare quotes) into a farce, especially given what he said prior to the 2010 debates?
If we inhabited a world in which the Tories and their actions were scrutinised critically by the media there would be one hell of a storm brewing about his calculated or arrogant dismissal of these, but we don't, so there isn't.
I await a sufficient explanation, but shan't be holding my breath on this one.

I dont care either way, but why is it such an issue now, we never had them before , until the last election, the way you 'reds' and 'greens' are carrying on, you would think that Cameron is breaking with a centuries old tradition ingrained in our historical political landscape,..... sheeesh.

if I was you, I would be focussing on how you are going to make up for the loss of 50 seats in Scotland,........ crash bang wallop.

 

[somerset]

Too Americanised for me , ...................................

Very predictable CM....... BUT for once I actually agree with you,..... lets just stick to normal interviews, newsnight, question time,...... soap box 'hustings' tours, battle busses weaving their way from high st to high st,....... Lefties lobbing eggs at anyone who doesnt have the same view as them,......... good old British politics..... homely and familiar.

 

[somerset]

Same, tho possibly for different reasons. Much as I hate the uber-smarmy face of Cameron, he has nothing to fear from the talking-out-the-side-of-his-mouth Milliband who isn't even the most talented politician in his own family. Everything about him oozes insincerity. Where's the politics of conviction? Sake!

... Even I may have been tempted to look at the other side if David M was leader, instead of Trade Union Ed.

 

[beorhthelm]

Can someone provide a justification for how Cameron has turned the leadership election debates (with each term devoid of inverted commas/scare quotes) into a farce, especially given what he said prior to the 2010 debates?

you cant give him all the credit. some has to go to Ofcom for coming out with guidance on who would be "major party", including UKIP, and Miliband for not immediately calling his bluff and agreeing with the notion the Greens should be included. in the end its all been a brilliant distraction from things like policy.

 

[Czechmate]

Very predictable CM....... BUT for once I actually agree with you,..... lets just stick to normal interviews, newsnight, question time,...... soap box 'hustings' tours, battle busses weaving their way from high st to high st,....... Lefties lobbing eggs at anyone who doesnt have the same view as them,......... good old British politics..... homely and familiar.

You're be surprised how our political views are similar (except Ukraine of course) looking back at some of your posts , and no I am not a leftie as you suggested somewhere ealier , bit more about halfway between centre and far right I would say

 

[simmo]

It is off course chicanary from Cameron to avoid them and I can understand why he doesn't want them, because he was the real loser of the debates last time. Before them the Tories were probably on for a majority, after them the Lib Dems looked a viable alternative to the 2 party status quo and people suddenly noticed Nick Clegg and his party.

In Cameron's defence though the leadership debates are not an ingrained part of the UK election process (maybe they should be?). 2010 is the only time it has ever occured (I think) and Brown (as the imcumbent PM) did that, because he was prior to them, so far behind in the polls and had nothing to lose.

A notable dodger of them was Tony Blair himself in 2005 when Michael Howard challenged him.

 

[drew]

Maybe the real reason that CMD won't debate is that they believe they only need to persuade another 11,000 voters to secure a majority!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4362460.ece

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Maybe the real reason that CMD won't debate is that they believe they only need to persuade another 11,000 voters to secure a majority!


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4362460.ece

Sums up the old school political system - that neither big party want to change. I feel sorry for all the people that live in seats with incumbent parties with 20-40K majorities.

I remember when I lived Tottenham and Bernie Grants election team lambasted us for voting Green and that we would be letting in the tories as it was tight, he got a 50 odd % majority.

Kemptown, Pavilion and Hove should all have a say as they could all go over to other parties. But the system in my eyes is rotten and keeps the big party machines in power.

 

[Biscuit]

I agree. I think the problem is that quite a few people within the "establishment", including politicians and broadcasters, think that they are a bit unseemly and American, and are therefore not really keen on the whole thing.

I'm not part of the establishment and I can't stand these ridiculous americanised TV debates. It's just serves to promote style over substance - I don't care what an MP looks like if they're good at their job! Probably why the US has so many actors running for political parties/in office!

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

This programme made me smile, especially when watching the free speech debates on BBC 3 - sums its all up really (bit of filming in Sussex Uni by the Amex)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hvm0m

Dont Vote #SrcrewYouth

 

[sten_super]

I'm not part of the establishment and I can't stand these ridiculous americanised TV debates. It's just serves to promote style over substance - I don't care what an MP looks like if they're good at their job! Probably why the US has so many actors running for political parties/in office!

My point wasn't that only the establishment weren't in favour, but that these are the people with the ability to influence the format.

MPs are already almost unanimously style over substance, I don't think the debates make a jot of difference either way. If these debates were well organised and run then they could genuinely test the depth and quality of the politicians and their policies. Of course that's unlikely given what we've seen in the past but what is there to lose? They are all cardboard shysters and they already lie left, right and centre without being pulled up on it.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Can someone explain to me why we can't vote at a Local level, and then vote at a National level?

For example, if I wanted to vote Greens at a local level lolol: As if), but Labour at a National level - I don't have that right, I don't get why not.

Thanks in advance!

 

[drew]

Can someone explain to me why we can't vote at a Local level, and then vote at a National level?

For example, if I wanted to vote Greens at a local level lolol: As if), but Labour at a National level - I don't have that right, I don't get why not.

Thanks in advance!

Vote Greens at council elections and labour at national!!

 

[Machiavelli]

I've just had the time to read through this thread and, in short, no-one has been able to provide a justification for why we're being subjected to these 'debates'. Many posters have said that the don't like the idea of debates, as they're too Americanised, etc. I have sympathy with this view, as I think politics should be far more about ideas, policies and vision rather than personality. That said, I'm almost certainly in a minority in that view and, if this is the case, then some proper debates -- as we had in 2010 -- should have been repeated this year. Especially given that they've been scuppered by Cameron, and he said all of these things on the matter:

1. “I absolutely believe in these debates and think they are great.” – David Cameron and Jeremy Thompson, Sky news, 14 April 2010

2. “I think it is great we are having these debates and I hope they go someway to restore some of the faith and some of the trust into our politics because we badly need that once again in this country.” – David Cameron, Leaders Debate, ITV, 15 April 2010

3. “Look, I’ve been calling for these debates for five years, I challenged Blair, I challenged Brown, I challenged when I was ahead in the polls, and when I was behind in the polls. I just think they are a good thing.” – David Cameron, Daily Telegraph, 17 April 2010

4. “I’ve always wanted these debates to happen. I mean they happen in every country. They even happen in Mongolia for heaven’s sake and it’s part of the modern age that we should be in.” – David Cameron, BBC3, 21 April 2010

5. “I think these debates are here to stay. They clearly engage people in politics which is what we need.” – David Cameron, News of the World, 2 May 2010

6. “If you want the TV debates to go ahead you have got to do it fairly between the main parties and look, having said I want them, having challenged people to have them and quite right, Sky saying let’s have them, it would have been feeble to find some excuse to back out so I thought we’ve got to stick at this, we’ve got to do it. It will be challenging, it was, but I think I came through them.” – David Cameron, Sky News, 3 May 2010

7. “You know we’ve been going on for years about let’s have these debates and I think it really vindicated having that. I think people will be asking themselves why on earth, what was all the fuss about? Why on earth didn’t we have these things before? We should have done and it’s great they’re underway now and I think we’ll have them in every election in the future and I think that’s a really good thing for our democracy.” – David Cameron, BBC Radio Manchester, 16 April 2014

8. “On TV debates, I’m in favour of them, I think they’re good and we should go on having them and I will certainly play my part in trying to make that happen.” – David Cameron, Coalition mid term review, 7th Jan 2012

9. “I think TV debates are good. I enjoyed them last time – particularly the last one.” – David Cameron, David Cameron, Press Association, 10th December 2012

10. (And finally – here’s a time when he criticised candidates for pulling out of the debates) – “Blair pulled out against, against Major and Major pulled out against Kinnock, Thatcher pulled out against Callaghan. I’ve just always believed that these need to happen. It’s good for democracy. It’s good to see.” – David Cameron and Allan Beswick, BBC Radio Manchester, 16 April 2014

The only explanation that has been offered is that Cameron decided that he had more to lose from debates this time round, which is certainly an explanation, but not a justification.
As to last night's 'debate', a few questions:
-- does anyone want to justify the format which was quite simply dire, and was an exercise in treating the electorate like idiots.
-- why did Kay Burley not interrupt Cameron (apart from to introduce a further question on policing when he'd strayed on to that territory)?
-- why were there shots of the studio audience when Miliband was speaking, and not when Cameron was?
-- why were we shown these shots only when the audience was laughing at Miliband, as opposed to clapping (and he received a few spontaneous rounds of applause, unlike Cameron)?

In my view, the last three questions can be answered with one word: Murdoch.

 

[Saladpack Seagull]

Shan't watch any of it. They're all self-seeking *******s who really don't give a stuff about anything except lining their own pockets. Watch all the failed politicians start new "careers" with the EU by the end of May. Snouts and troughs at the ready.........

 

[Machiavelli]

Seems many more thought Kay Burley was decidedly one-sided last night:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...axman-broadcast-gets-more-than-100-complaints

That said, and as Alastair Campbell has acknowledged, her confrontational approach to Miliband gave him the platform to respond

 

[Soulman]

The BBC announced today a series of debates which would take place in the run up to the General Election on May 7th, this includes a "special" Question Time episode presented by David Dimbleby on 30th April
Although the BBC have invited UKIP to other programs they have not included UKIP' in a "special" question time episode airing on 30th April opting only to invite Nick Clegg, Ed Miliband and David Cameron.This is a completely unjustified decision that gives the 3 other political parties an upper hand against UKIP and is a betrayal to British voters. UKIP won the 2014 European elections this alone proves that the British Public believe in what UKIP stands for, the BBC are turning a blind eye to this and of Ofcom's confirmation that UKIP is a major political party.

 

[Machiavelli]

The BBC announced today a series of debates which would take place in the run up to the General Election on May 7th, this includes a "special" Question Time episode presented by David Dimbleby on 30th April
Although the BBC have invited UKIP to other programs they have not included UKIP' in a "special" question time episode airing on 30th April opting only to invite Nick Clegg, Ed Miliband and David Cameron.This is a completely unjustified decision that gives the 3 other political parties an upper hand against UKIP and is a betrayal to British voters. UKIP won the 2014 European elections this alone proves that the British Public believe in what UKIP stands for, the BBC are turning a blind eye to this and of Ofcom's confirmation that UKIP is a major political party.

The poor betrayed British people.
ps how many seats do you think UKIP will get at the general election?

 

[Soulman]

The poor betrayed British people.
ps how many seats do you think UKIP will get at the general election?

Not really, though you can dramatise it if it makes you feel better. With the opinion polls that are frequently put up on here, i would assume that UKIP are in third place, well above the liberals, so they and the Greens should be represented surely.

"how many seats do you think UKIP will get at the general election?"........If i was clairvoyant and knew, i would be straight down the bookies.