Las Malvinas / The Falklands

[Chicken Runner61]

16 BHA it seems you need to read your history books again. We leased Hong Kong under a 99 year lease. The lease ended as leases do, and so we handed it back to the owner 'China'

The Falklands is a different issue, the inhabitants hold British Passports although they dont have full British Citizenship and Residency rights. As the Falklands are classed as a British Overseas Territory, the Islanders have a right to ask for protection from the British Government. Rightly so, Mrs Thatcher gave them this protection back in April 1982 and we should again afford the Islanders the same protection should they request it.

This is all very true but you do realise that Argentina was very close to being a major world power in the last century. It was its corrupt class system and governments that failed its people and kept it a poor neighbour of the USA. If the argies had realised the potential of their country they might have convinced the Islanders to become a part of Argentina as no one here cared about them until the 80's

The Islanders know what side their bread is buttered, when the oil deals are done they will decide who they will be part of. The fact they don't have full British Citizenship and Residency rights (if thats true) might actually swing it.

 

[kjgood]

I agree mainly with your points and support the democracy angle. If the Islanders were to have a referendum and vote to move to Argentina then that is thier right to leave British protection, and move over to being under the control/protection of Argentina. Your also right about Oil rights and of course that is why both countries have an underlying interest.

Having been there, my feeling was that the Islanders felt themselves staunchly British, although the conflict may have generated that attitude at that time. I dont have the same up to date understanding of the current wishes of the Islanders.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is all very true but you do realise that Argentina was very close to being a major world power in the last century. It was its corrupt class system and governments that failed its people and kept it a poor neighbour of the USA. If the argies had realised the potential of their country they might have convinced the Islanders to become a part of Argentina as no one here cared about them until the 80's

The Islanders know what side their bread is buttered, when the oil deals are done they will decide who they will be part of. The fact they don't have full British Citizenship and Residency rights (if thats true) might actually swing it.

Good point. Argentina were one of the top 10 richest countries at one point.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I agree mainly with your points and support the democracy angle. If the Islanders were to have a referendum and vote to move to Argentina then that is thier right to leave British protection, and move over to being under the control/protection of Argentina. Your also right about Oil rights and of course that is why both countries have an underlying interest.

Having been there, my feeling was that the Islanders felt themselves staunchly British, although the conflict may have generated that attitude at that time. I dont have the same up to date understanding of the current wishes of the Islanders.

Hey - You are right in what you say, just don't trust that peoples feelings won't change - and more importantly don't think that a deal has not already been planned.

That oil will need to come ashore somehow and its a bloody long way to cornwall from there. Nearly All those SAmerican countries have mineral wealth we can dream about and the land.......

They are not going to want to sea that oil go to a small resourceless island in the North are they - how hard will they fight for it?

Our North Sea oil may not completely be gone its just the stuff left is harder (more expensive) to get out and when oil goes to $200 a barrel it becomes easier. Why did the goons Laurel & Hardy stick a tax on existing companies drawing N Sea oil??

I wouldn't be surprised if we agree to lease the Islands for 99 years - a deal orchestrated by the yanks to help everybody and to ensure they get their share.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

No. It'll be déjà vu all over again.

As Thatcher found, it's the way to say to Argentina "Las Malvinas are all yours. Walk in whenever you want. We don't care". What happens next is that the UK is panicked into a war, without proper preparations being made, once the Falkland Islanders win over the hearts and minds of middle England which, inevitably, they would do.

What is your point

My point is that Thatcher's pre-1982 policy to dump the Falkland Islanders was not only reponsible for the war, but is responsible for ensuring that any long-term settlement of the Falklands question that involves an accommodation with Argentina will prove impossible to achieve.

The UK is lumbered with the costs of defending the status quo - and there is no escape from this, however unsustainable it proves.

 

[kjgood]

Like we give away billions to India (Nuclear programme), China (Human Rights) countless others in Africa (Corruption, Oppression, War etc etc) and many other countries? At least these Islanders currently want to remain British. I would rather my taxes go to supporting the Falklands than many of the above.

And yes i am biased as I lost good friends both there and on the way there. Sorry if my view offends.

 

[pork pie]

Like we give away billions to India (Nuclear programme), China (Human Rights) countless others in Africa (Corruption, Oppression, War etc etc) and many other countries? At least these Islanders currently want to remain British. I would rather my taxes go to supporting the Falklands than many of the above.

And yes i am biased as I lost good friends both there and on the way there. Sorry if my view offends.

SPOT ON! Our last penny of overseas aid should go to them - the others can all stop their f***ing sponging. In most cases they rejected British rule, so let them live with the consequences.

My only concern is that we look to be downgrading the islands' defenses. We should pull out of Afganistan which has nothing to do with us, and has always been a problem to subdue - and use our forces to defend British interests.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The UK aid programme to India is coming to an end. All that is currently left is a small contribution to allow established programmes that address poverty in particular regions to be wound down systematically. There is no UK aid programme in China.

 

[pork pie]

The UK aid programme to India is coming to an end. All that is currently left is a small contribution to allow established programmes that address poverty in particular regions to be wound down systematically. There is no UK aid programme in China.

Great news - thanks for that.

Hopefully the rest will end soon, and we can spend our money on our own people.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Great news - thanks for that.

Hopefully the rest will end soon, and we can spend our money on our own people.

What forces?? we are reducing our forces because we can't afford them.


How much money are you prepared to give 3000 people? They are self sufficient they don't need our money - in fact if you gave 3000 people the amount of money we spend on "defending" them they could retire to the bahamas.

Its got nothing to do with the people there - all 3000 of them

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Great news - thanks for that.

Hopefully the rest will end soon, and we can spend our money on our own people.

Following the strategic spending review, the current government is committed to maintaining spending on international aid and development. You might not support this, but all UK political parties do. What do we get for it? A more stable world and fewer humanitarian disasters.

 

[pork pie]

Following the strategic spending review, the current government is committed to maintaining spending on international aid and development. You might not support this, but all UK political parties do. What do we get for it? A more stable world and fewer humanitarian disasters.

Too many bleeding hearts in politics. They should ask for a referendum on such matters - most people resent their money being given away. The Tories were probably forced into it by the Libs as part of their agreement.

If people want to help with humanitarian disasters they can give money to charity - not have their taxes given away.

 

[kjgood]

Hmmmm Uk Government figure for Foreign Aid 2011 was £7.7 BILLION . Including;

Angola
Bosnia
Burundi
Cameroon
Cambodia
China
Gambia
Indonesia
Iraq
Kosovo
Lesotho
Moldova
Niger
Russia
Serbia
Vietnam

And they are just the countries we are thinking of stopping aid to.

 

[pork pie]

Hmmmm Uk Government figure for Foreign Aid 2011 was £7.7 BILLION . Including;

Angola
Bosnia
Burundi
Cameroon
Cambodia
China
Gambia
Indonesia
Iraq
Kosovo
Lesotho
Moldova
Niger
Russia
Serbia
Vietnam

And they are just the countries we are thinking of stopping aid to.

Russia and China should be giving us aid! It just proves how our foreign aid program is out of control.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Too many bleeding hearts in politics. They should ask for a referendum on such matters - most people resent their money being given away. The Tories were probably forced into it by the Libs as part of their agreement.

If people want to help with humanitarian disasters they can give money to charity - not have their taxes given away.

I haven't got the time or the energy to spend on explaining why you are so wrong, except to say that without stable, long-term, government programmes to support the work of non-governmental organisations, such as the major charities who deliver the aid programme on the ground, the infrastructure to enable public donations to reach disaster areas simply wouldn't be there when it's needed.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Russia and China should be giving us aid! It just proves how our foreign aid program is out of control.

The point is that it's NOT out of control. UK aid to Russia and China (and all the other countries listed) has finished or is finishing.

 

[kjgood]

I'm not a political animal therefore dont have a party axe to grind, but actually the point is:

Team GB is broke, We've been broke for years, we are cutting everywhere in all the areas we should be investing in, Health, Education, decent pensions for our elderly, investing in our youth, giving free university education to OUR up and coming generations. The Government and previous Governments should have put up the 'No more' signs years ago.

What difference would £77 Billion pounds have made to our infrastructure over the last ten years? Instead India has been going to space and building nuclear bombs (on our money, whilst millions are starving) China is taking over the world including the economic world (whilst suppressng human rights and with millions starving), and Russia owns most of London (and most of our football teams) and has a stranglehold on gas and oil at the moment.

I'm sorry i cant see the argument. The fact that we're stopping to give to China and India and all these other countries maybe in 2012, i dont see how it justifies the many billions that we have given them in the past whilst we are also supporting the whole of Eastern Europe as well at home, when we need the money as well. The fact i cant see the argument is perhaps why i dont work in politics.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

How long will this policy last? How long before the UK government revert to Thatcher's pre-1982 policy that supported ceding the Islands to Argentina and leasing them back for a limited period, say 70 years (the policy that led to the war in the first place)?

The policy, should last as long as the inhabitants want to be British.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I'm not a political animal therefore dont have a party axe to grind, but actually the point is:

Team GB is broke, We've been broke for years, we are cutting everywhere in all the areas we should be investing in, Health, Education, decent pensions for our elderly, investing in our youth, giving free university education to OUR up and coming generations. The Government and previous Governments should have put up the 'No more' signs years ago.

What difference would £77 Billion pounds have made to our infrastructure over the last ten years? Instead India has been going to space and building nuclear bombs (on our money, whilst millions are starving) China is taking over the world including the economic world (whilst suppressng human rights and with millions starving), and Russia owns most of London (and most of our football teams) and has a stranglehold on gas and oil at the moment.

I'm sorry i cant see the argument. The fact that we're stopping to give to China and India and all these other countries maybe in 2012, i dont see how it justifies the many billions that we have given them in the past whilst we are also supporting the whole of Eastern Europe as well at home, when we need the money as well. The fact i cant see the argument is perhaps why i dont work in politics.

Don't exaggerate the numbers. UK aid to Russia was only £1.3 million in 2010. That's less money (in a whole year) than has been spent this afternoon by the people attending 90 minutes of football at the Emirates.

 

[kjgood]

Source BBC News - UK overseas aid changes compassionate, says minister Source DFID 2011 £7.8 billion

No one needs to exaggerate. Potential £446 million to Pakistan in 2012? The country developing WMD hiding and supporting Bin Laden, you think the UK public like that? What gives politcians the right to do this or what even gives them the will?