Landlords will be able to buy their beer on the open market...

[Lady Whistledown]

View attachment 60262

Ohhh, now you've done it...

<stands back>

 

[Bwian]

I'm not sure this could be anything other than good for the Pub trade.

*awaits BG to tell us to the contrary*

He used to be Publican, but doesn't talk about it much.

Is he related to Dave Whelan?

 

[Bwian]

Edit

 

[Hillian1]

Edit

Yes, he's Daves grand father.

But he doesn't like to talk about it.

 

[beorhthelm]

about time, cant believe how they've got away with this arrangement for so long. only jobs losses i forsee are in the senior managment of the Pub Cos. we dont have to speculate how well this will work, we look at Wetherspoons to see how pubs with a wide selection can be operated at profit. (some might not like the clientele, but the business works)

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Every one was moaning about the breweries before pubcos, I very much doubt they will lose, the will increase the rents to compensate. There is no tie in Aus. and you have a choice of two lagers, in Wales here where there are many free trade pubs they go for the cheapest so it's Carling or Worthington, but that said this is Wales!

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

There was I thinking the Open Market was only good for Dave Ovettes eggs and sta-press at half the price of Potters

 

[perseus]

Am I correct in thinking, generally, there is only value in "selling for housing" if the building can be demolished and new housing built in its place? Ie the site is of value not the actual building? If so, a few will go this way but I doubt it will be the majority.

Just look at what has happened to the pubs that have closed. 90% to housing, 8% to supermarkets/charity shops and about half the rest to disused or sold as a pub (one I know of).

 

[essbee]

And Peroni can f*** off with your overpriced sh**

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

My investment in Enterprise Inns has just collapsed

Good

 

[BlockDpete]

Could be interesting. The landlord of The Swan in Crawley recently got fined by Enterprise Inns, for sourcing his beers from off their list.

Being a real ale fan, he wanted to support local breweries, such as Kissingate.

Hopefully this will stop now.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The report is wrong. Most non-tied pubs are owned by private people or small companies. Their rents are normally very close or even less than those of tied pubs. That has always been the problem. If the tied pubco's had offered substantially less rent then there would not have of been an issue. Instead they up the rents comparable to turn over and not to the value of the property as a private landlord would do.Add to this the price fixing, the pubco's strangled the average tenant. Hopefully they all suffer, especially as they have been cooking their own books for decades, borrowing against inflated valuations of their holdings.

The contempt they have for their tenants knows no bounds.

Having owned the lease to 2 pubs from Enterprise and owned a further 2 free of tie (freeholds), I'm really happy that hopefully there is going to be a level playing field, (all too late for me as I'm out of the business) however there will need to be something in the legislation that states the rents can only be a percentage of the agreed value of the property otherwise the *******s will just raise them to compensate their losses.

Finally it could be the end of the pubco, (yipee) they are already are having to sell off the properties at an alarming rate as they are unable to keep up with payments on loans. They effectively bullshitted about their incomes to the financial houses and overvalued. Oh dear never mind now f**k off you parasites.

 

[jakarta]

the other has been a train wreck for the last 5 years or so.

That's no way to speak about the 5 Bells.....

 

[Dick Head]

 

[Superphil]

That's no way to speak about the 5 Bells.....

Knowing that you know I am not referring to the Bells, I would like to clarify it's the Elephant and Castle that has gone tits up due to Hall & Woodhouse, they are waiting to get consent to build half a dozen £700k+ houses on the site.

It's the Queens Head that has been on the ropes, or off the rails, for the past few years due to the pubco, it closed for a couple of months recently whilst the 4th tenant in 3 years cleared out, and now they have new tenants in. Apparently recruited from down Cornwall or Devon way, with no experience of ever having run a pub, and they'd never even been to the village to see the place before they arrived. Saying 'Good luck' to them seems a little futile tbh.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I would like to clarify it's the Elephant and Castle that has gone tits up due to Hall & Woodhouse, they are waiting to get consent to build half a dozen £700k+ houses on the site.

It's a traditional tactic sadly. Buy a pub as a 'business', then apply to bulldoze it and build houses for mega-profit. Fail, intially in the face of local opposition. Run pub into the ground, with crap management and no spend on maintenance, so that it becomes unviable as a business. Close pub. Apply again to bulldoze it.

#wankers

 

[BensGrandad]

I'm not sure this could be anything other than good for the Pub trade.

*awaits BG to tell us to the contrary*

He used to be Publican, but doesn't talk about it much.

Far from it, this us the greatest news ever to publicans. In the late 80s I was one of the instigators of NAIL (National Association of Inntrepeneur Leasees) and witnessed many examples of bankruptcy abd suicide because of the pub cos.

What was Watney pubs were put into a newly formed company Inntrepeneur based in Thame and the major share holders being Grand Met. This company had a large law suit taken against them which if proved woukd have broken them so they sokd out to Enterprise Inns coincidentally based in tge same block of offices in Thame. All the major brewers and pub owners followed a similar line . They all formed oroperty companies aside from theur brewing except Whitbread who stopped brewing all together and concdntrated on property ownership. Prior to this tensnts had been in pubs on low rents but the new wizz kid property managers decided that pubs wiuld pay rent at x amount per foot. The pub I was in was £13,000 a year rent but within 5 years had risen to £38,000 this happened to the vast
majority of pubs. Hence the closure as many became unviable with leasees earning in a lot of cases around £100
Per week.

This is long overdue, what the final affect on the licensed trade will be I hate to guess as the damage has been done.

 

[Bry Nylon]

I'm not sure this could be anything other than good for the Pub trade.

*awaits BG to tell us to the contrary*

He used to be Publican, but doesn't talk about it much.

I've always had a soft spot for publicans. But then I like all wading birds.

 

[Bry Nylon]

the pubco's strangled the average tenant. Hopefully they all suffer, especially as they have been cooking their own books for decades.

That certainly goes someway to explaining the lasagne I had in the Dog and Trumpet last week.

 

[BensGrandad]

It's a traditional tactic sadly. Buy a pub as a 'business', then apply to bulldoze it and build houses for mega-profit. Fail, intially in the face of local opposition. Run pub into the ground, with crap management and no spend on maintenance, so that it becomes unviable as a business. Close pub. Apply again to bulldoze it.

#wanxkers

At one time councils wouldnt grant permission for redevelopement when a pub closed but they have relaxed their atttitude and allow it in a reasonably short time. That is what happened to the Royal George, Kings Head and Junction
In Burgess Hill and will probably happen to the Royal Oak Wivlesfield.

As Piltdown Man says most free houses are privately owned but houses owned by small brewers tend to charge a realistic rent and supplement this with beer sales. IMHO the only plus for Harveys, but it is the big pub property owners that are the major culprits.

The ones to watch now as they will be the largest company if they buy the Spirit Group as is predicted will be Greene King.