Lance Armstrong ends fight against doping charges

[teaboy]

There aren't drugs in tennis - Andy Murray says so.

Andy Murray defends tennis from provocative doping allegations | Sport | guardian.co.uk

I especially like this bit:
"The game has changed, for sure, physically. It's much more demanding, and I have adapted my preparation and training, reducing the amount of tournaments I play and spending more time preparing, getting myself ready for events."

He also said last year that 'there aren't drugs that can help you hit winners'...

 

[Woodchip]

Changed his 'preparation' to increase his game? I wonder if he knows Michele Ferrari.

 

[Stat Brother]

My specific problem with tennis has always been Nadal, not Murray.


TBH, I don't understand why you wouldn't cheat, use PED's in tennis, football, golf.

One win and you're set up, pretty much for life.
You're not going to get tested.
You've got to be pretty certain someone else is doing it.
There's a damn sight more money and prestige involved in those sports than there ever will be in cycling.

Tennis should be ashamed of it testing policy, they leave themselves right open to the charge of doping, because the have no evidence to refute it.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

It's a MASSIVE thing to throw doping allegations around, mud sticks. It's completely unfair to suggest they're doping because they haven't been caught. For every Lance Armstrong, you have a Mo Farah who isn't a cheat, he's just f***ing BRILLIANT. Rafael Nadal has grown up playing tennis and being trained hard, hence his physique. Do I believe his levels of stamina are incredible? Yes. Do I believe he's cheated to reach this point? No. Am I gullible? Yes, deffinitely! But I don't think tennis has a drugs problem. It has a drugs testing problem perhaps, but to accuse individuals of taking drugs is slanderous.

 

[Brighton Mod]

It's a MASSIVE thing to throw doping allegations around, mud sticks. It's completely unfair to suggest they're doping because they haven't been caught. For every Lance Armstrong, you have a Mo Farah who isn't a cheat, he's just f***ing BRILLIANT. Rafael Nadal has grown up playing tennis and being trained hard, hence his physique. Do I believe his levels of stamina are incredible? Yes. Do I believe he's cheated to reach this point? No. Am I gullible? Yes, deffinitely! But I don't think tennis has a drugs problem. It has a drugs testing problem perhaps, but to accuse individuals of taking drugs is slanderous.

Rafael Nadal, definately changed physique subsequent to his year out, it was coincidentally just after the exposure of Operacion Puerto. I don't know whether he did or didn't, but there had been a resurgance in Spannish endurance sports just prior and subsequent to that time. The trouble with the drug is he, isn't he genre is that unless you're there you just don't know.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Hey Rafa

It's a MASSIVE thing to throw doping allegations around, mud sticks. It's completely unfair to suggest they're doping because they haven't been caught. For every Lance Armstrong, you have a Mo Farah who isn't a cheat, he's just f***ing BRILLIANT. Rafael Nadal has grown up playing tennis and being trained hard, hence his physique. Do I believe his levels of stamina are incredible? Yes. Do I believe he's cheated to reach this point? No. Am I gullible? Yes, deffinitely! But I don't think tennis has a drugs problem. It has a drugs testing problem perhaps, but to accuse individuals of taking drugs is slanderous.

Rafael Nadal, definately changed physique subsequent to his year out, it was coincidentally just after the exposure of Operacion Puerto. I don't know whether he did or didn't, but there had been a resurgance in Spannish endurance sports just prior and subsequent to that time. The trouble with the drug is he, isn't he genre is that unless you're there you just don't know.

 

[Stat Brother]

This is one of those things when we get down to the nuts and bolts of our theories we probably agree on 95%.

It's a MASSIVE thing to throw doping allegations around, mud sticks. It's completely unfair to suggest they're doping because they haven't been caught.

It is, but there's only nominal fact, based on inferior urine tests to say otherwise.

For every Lance Armstrong, you have a Mo Farah who isn't a cheat, he's just f***ing BRILLIANT.

Absolutely, fingers crossed you have a Mo Farah and an Andy Murray, and a Nadal, and a Federer.

Rafael Nadal has grown up playing tennis and being trained hard, hence his physique. Do I believe his levels of stamina are incredible? Yes. Do I believe he's cheated to reach this point? No. Am I gullible? Yes, deffinitely!

I see a massive 4, 5 even 6 hour Grand Slam semi final the same way as climbing 5 mountains at record pace.
If something is too good to be true, it usually is.
Federer physic and style of play lends him to the sport.
Murray was an awkward gangly boy, and is now a big strong fella, but it's a progression we have all seen and will hopefully hold him in good stead.
Nadal gives the impression of being a huge lumbering beast of a man who's body is unable to cope with the force it exerts.
All the while being linked with discredited Dr. Emmanuel Fuente (along with Barca).
Coming out in defence of other Spanish drug cheats (Contador, cycling).
While being Spanish, a culture that doesn't have the same moral outrage, towards PED's.

But I don't think tennis has a drugs problem. It has a drugs testing problem perhaps,

You just can't make those 2 statements, nobody has any idea about the first because the ATP are doing next to nothing.
It was an embarrassing interview last night, for which they should be ashamed.
Who know's maybe Lance has a legacy after all.
But how many other associations are prepared to purge themselves cleaner (cycling is still not a clean sport).

but to accuse individuals of taking drugs is slanderous.

Very true, but I'm not the first, I won't be the last, and until such time as The ATP takes it's head out of the sand, there's not much either of us can do to prove the other wrong.


I love sport, I desperately want to be the one in the wrong.
I so wanted to believe in Lance, but it just got to the point, years ago, when I couldn't.
I hate what he and his ilk have done to MY sport.
I'm not pointing the finger over there saying 'look that way, nothing to see here'.
What I'm doing is flagging up history repeating itself.
Same people. (doctors)
Same conditions. (Associations 'turning a blind eye', and not doing enough)
Money. (A racing Lance revolutionised world cycling)

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Silver lining is the American/world population at large don't believe what he is saying

Lance Armstrong's Oprah PR disaster: polls show confessing is for losers | Harry J Enten | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

 

[Ninja Elephant]

[MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION], forgive me for not addressing each point individually. You make a passionate and honest response so I find no reason to want to argue with you, especially considering it's all theoretical anyway.

I'm one for conspiracies, though I don't believe them. I read all the stuff about Jack Wilshere being out with issues other than his knee/ankle, and I've read a lot of the "Nadal has no problems with his knees" stuff as well... but reading them certainly isn't the same as believing them. Like the 9/11 stuff!

 

[Brighton_rook]

Lance Armstrong lies to Oprah Winfrey - YouTube

 

[Stat Brother]

[MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION], forgive me for not addressing each point individually. You make a passionate and honest response so I find no reason to want to argue with you, especially considering it's all theoretical anyway.

I'm one for conspiracies, though I don't believe them. I read all the stuff about Jack Wilshere being out with issues other than his knee/ankle, and I've read a lot of the "Nadal has no problems with his knees" stuff as well... but reading them certainly isn't the same as believing them. Like the 9/11 stuff!

True.

I think the main point to which we both agree is:-

If the ATP did their job properly we wouldn't be having the discussion.

 

[BHAOHM]

Absolutely disgusting. Lying, bullying and sueing. Why would you sue people for accusing you if you could possibly get caught? The UCI were obviously paid to be quite about it all because he made a donation. Looking back at the books I have and all the pictures and knowing all of it was one big LIE. They say cycling is now a clean sport and will continue to stay that way but the legends from the 70's-00's were probably all on performance enhancing drugs. It is a disgrace.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

True.

I think the main point to which we both agree is:-

If the ATP did their job properly we wouldn't be having the discussion.

Deffinitely. But the question is, how much is enough? After each match? Or is that excessive. After each tournament? Or is that too lenient? Once a week, every month, all year? It's a difficult one to get right and as proven by Lance Armstrong, if you want to avoid being caught, you can. I believe in the athletes though, I know there are a minority who cheat and misbehave, but overall they're a good breed.

 

[Stat Brother]

It's as if you say his name 3 times and he'll appear.

This is the man that can bring down world sport, through is own actions.

Spain accused of a doping cover-up as doctor implicated in cycling's Operation Puerto scandal goes on trial - Telegraph

WADA frustrated with Operacion Puerto trial’s focus on cycling only

 

[Stat Brother]

Deffinitely. But the question is, how much is enough? After each match? Or is that excessive. After each tournament? Or is that too lenient? Once a week, every month, all year? It's a difficult one to get right and as proven by Lance Armstrong, if you want to avoid being caught, you can. I believe in the athletes though, I know there are a minority who cheat and misbehave, but overall they're a good breed.

With the grand tours, I believe:-

The first 3 of all stages are tested.
x amount, possible 3, other riders are tested.
The top 3 in the general classification.
The leaders in each separate competition.

All riders are subject to out of competition testing and have to log their whereabouts 24/7 over the year.
(I believe it's the same for athletics)
Each professional team pays $120,000 per annum to fund this, no payment no license to ride.

No scheme is going to be 100%.
What's good about the biological passports is over time a nice pattern develops as to the riders make-up.
It doesn't stop drug taking but it does stop them having a massive effect on performance, because a rider can't 'spike' the graph.



I'll have a look around, after tea, and see who's bio passport is on-line, as that will explain it better.

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh and it's really fookin shit my 'chosen specialised subject' in Mastermind would be:-

'PED and blood doping in cycling and sport in general'


Thanks a fookin lot cycling.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

[MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION], forgive me for not addressing each point individually. You make a passionate and honest response so I find no reason to want to argue with you, especially considering it's all theoretical anyway.

I'm one for conspiracies, though I don't believe them. I read all the stuff about Jack Wilshere being out with issues other than his knee/ankle, and I've read a lot of the "Nadal has no problems with his knees" stuff as well... but reading them certainly isn't the same as believing them. Like the 9/11 stuff!

Nadal was alleged to be one of the names in the Dr Fuentes bust, alongside LA Liga footballers. I don't believe the Spanish authorities of governing bodies took any action against anyone. Lots of the blood bags were identified by nicknames, i.e pets names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operación_Puerto_doping_case

On 5 July 2006, Fuentes was indignant that only cyclists had been named and said he also worked with tennis and football players

Eufemiano Fuentes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Oh and it's really fookin shit my 'chosen specialised subject' in Mastermind would be:-

'PED and blood doping in cycling and sport in general'


Thanks a fookin lot cycling.

I am sure when you win through your next round could be Victoria Pendleton

 

[Stat Brother]

Athlete Biological Passport - World Anti-Doping Agency


This back in 2009:-

Wiggins bio passport numbers released | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more.
I'm struggling to find a rider putting their current PP online.

It possibly working:-

Hoste Under Investigation For Biological Passport Violation | Cyclingnews.com
Biological Passport nabs Carlos Barredo

 

[Woodchip]

If Fuentes and Ferrari spill the beans we could see world sport get a massive overhaul.