Labour. What is going on ?

[Leekbrookgull]

Tory immigration spokesman Damian Green has been arrested by the Met,on leaking Home Office immigration figures ??

 

[clapham_gull]

Tory immigration spokesman Damian Green has been arrested by the Met,on leaking Home Office immigration figures ??

Surely that should be Tories, What is going on ?

 

[Titanic]

According to the BBC, this is the secret Home Office information that was 'leaked'...

• The November 2007 revelation that the home secretary knew the Security Industry Authority had granted licences to 5,000 illegal workers, but decided not to publicise it.
• The February 2008 news that an illegal immigrant had been employed as a cleaner in the House of Commons.
• A whips' list of potential Labour rebels in the vote on plans to increase the pre-charge terror detention limit to 42 days.
• A letter from the home secretary warning that a recession could lead to a rise in crime.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

What we all know. No Secret. So why arrest him ?

 

[clapham_gull]

What we all know. No Secret. So why arrest him ?

We know NOW, because the information has been leaked to the press over time.

Seems to be something happening over a long period.

Very odd indeed and you'd think the police have better things to do, although if something like that was reported I guess they are bound to do something.

I'd imagine someone persistent could probably have got the information with the freedom of information act anyway.

If this has been politically motivated, will back fire on the Government.

 

[Titanic]

What we all know. No Secret. So why arrest him ?

Indeed... it's either a huge cock up by the Met and/or the government... or we don't know the full story yet...

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Good on him for leaking the information. Whilst every govt. keeps secrets from the general public, I do not trust the spinning Labour Party as far as I could throw Geoff Capes, whilst under the influence of a well known sedative.

 

[clapham_gull]

Nine anti-terrorism officers apparently...

.. er nice work.

 

[drew]

Good on him for leaking the information. Whilst every govt. keeps secrets from the general public, I do not trust the spinning Labour Party as far as I could throw Geoff Capes, whilst under the influence of a well known sedative.

Do you single out Labour as the only party you don't trust? Surely all politicians are as untrustworthy as the next. Look at George Osbourne and his sojourn in Corfu. They are all as bad as each other.

 

[London Calling]

According to the BBC, this is the secret Home Office information that was 'leaked'...

• The November 2007 revelation that the home secretary knew the Security Industry Authority had granted licences to 5,000 illegal workers, but decided not to publicise it.
• The February 2008 news that an illegal immigrant had been employed as a cleaner in the House of Commons.
• A whips' list of potential Labour rebels in the vote on plans to increase the pre-charge terror detention limit to 42 days.
• A letter from the home secretary warning that a recession could lead to a rise in crime.

The point is you cannot have Civil Servants leaking information, otherwise the whole function of Government breaks down. None of the above were really issues of merit, just to embarrass a Government.

Simple questions to a minister could have ascertained 3 of the 4 answers above.

Then of course there are FOI's.

The whip information is a private Parliamentary Labour Party issue.

Personally, I don't get this issue of trust, our Parliamentary and Local Administrations have amongst the highest standards in the world.

The Parliamentary Committee system is probably the best.

Our Politicians are not corrupt and even the MEP's cases recently, whilst, would impinge UK rules for Politicians did not break EC rules.

 

[coventrygull]

Things are going to get very nasty in the coming months. Goodbye democracy hello ZanuLabour

 

[London Calling]

Things are going to get very nasty in the coming months. Goodbye democracy hello ZanuLabour

I like that - do you think we are going to start seeing all unknown Conservatives gradually disaperaing, being marched off to a cell. Then Stalin Brown can out the Conservative membership, that should start a big thread on here.

Better round up Respect and any believers of the SWP,, for their imperialist ideas as well.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

The point is you cannot have Civil Servants leaking information, otherwise the whole function of Government breaks down. None of the above were really issues of merit, just to embarrass a Government.

Simple questions to a minister could have ascertained 3 of the 4 answers above.

Then of course there are FOI's.

The whip information is a private Parliamentary Labour Party issue.

Personally, I don't get this issue of trust, our Parliamentary and Local Administrations have amongst the highest standards in the world.

The Parliamentary Committee system is probably the best.

Our Politicians are not corrupt and even the MEP's cases recently, whilst, would impinge UK rules for Politicians did not break EC rules.

On both PQ's and FOI's you need to have an inkling of what the problem is to ask the question, and even then you can answer sneekily or redact. I can't see how that would have been possible on at least the first two issues. I'd also disgree that those 2 weren't issues of merit. The head of the body issuing these permits resigned recently and i'm sure that this was a contributing factor.

I agree. I think UK politicians have the highest standards and aren't corrupt.

But this whole affair is very worrying. The crumb of comfort is that there is a public interest defence to what he has been charged with so if the Police are mad enough to charge him he'll surely be acquitted.



I really do worry about what the police were playing at

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's the next step into a Police state. ID cards, arrest for publishing information that wasn't a threat to security but should neather the less be in the public domain, attempts at new anti-terror laws that allow imprisonment for extended periods without trial. All very Mugabe, Hitler, Stalin - take your pick - we're heading in that direction.

 

[beorhthelm]

The point is you cannot have Civil Servants leaking information, otherwise the whole function of Government breaks down. None of the above were really issues of merit, just to embarrass a Government.

but they do all the time (often from ministers so they aviod having to report to parliament) and it has been noted that a certain Mr Brown made their name in the corridors of Westminister as a serial leaker during the Tory years. What this is about is they've found out the source of some particularly embaressing leaks and want to scare people off by making an example. using counter terrror officers is part of that and signals (again) that Labour have gone a little draconian. this is the party that want to spend £10 billion on a national ID card and is allowing the police to maintain DNA records of anyone they come across in theri investigations... are we not worried about this yet?

 

[London Calling]

On both PQ's and FOI's you need to have an inkling of what the problem is to ask the question, and even then you can answer sneekily or redact. I can't see how that would have been possible on at least the first two issues. I'd also disgree that those 2 weren't issues of merit. The head of the body issuing these permits resigned recently and i'm sure that this was a contributing factor.

I agree. I think UK politicians have the highest standards and aren't corrupt.

But this whole affair is very worrying. The crumb of comfort is that there is a public interest defence to what he has been charged with so if the Police are mad enough to charge him he'll surely be acquitted.



I really do worry about what the police were playing at

I imagine, he is only being asked to shop his source, but if he refuses to, then the full weight of the law will come down.

I suppose what I really mean, if something really is in the public interest, you know a cover up, then I believe Civil Servants have a right and duty to leak.

In addition, Civil Servants can also use the Whistle blowing legilslation - to inform about issues of corruption etc.

In terms of the permits, this is more of a implementation cock up not necessarily Government Policy or corruption. Embarrasing yes. Is the function of Government to announce all its warts and flaws. I don't think so.

Just to add, the supply of resources devoted to answering FOI's in my organisatiion, one of the Mayor of London's, is staggering.

It has a policy of openess, because FOI have to meet legal requirements all answwers are scrtunised by Departmental Heads and Legal Teams.

A simple letter or phone call to me on my subject normally gets an answer immediately, work permitting and on average 25 days quicker.

 

[London Calling]

but they do all the time (often from ministers so they aviod having to report to parliament) and it has been noted that a certain Mr Brown made their name in the corridors of Westminister as a serial leaker during the Tory years. What this is about is they've found out the source of some particularly embaressing leaks and want to scare people off by making an example. using counter terrror officers is part of that and signals (again) that Labour have gone a little draconian. this is the party that want to spend £10 billion on a national ID card and is allowing the police to maintain DNA records of anyone they come across in theri investigations... are we not worried about this yet?

In some respects a fair point. Civil Servants should not be used for POlitical purposes, this is different for Politicians. The 2 should not be mixed.

A leak does not prevent public parliamentary scrutiny?


Liberty etc raised the issue about this act being used (or exploited) the bolt on's which the Police are using here, were lazyness by theGovernment but not unique to this Government or the uK.



The iD cards and DNA - well what the **** is going on. The very slow implementation of the ID cards through the back door at Airports etc really shows that this Government knows it is a flawed policy, its rational for being is totally blow out of the water. The DNA tests are only being rolled out in England and Wales? What is going on.?

The VAT reduction mess.

I really feel that the Ministers and of course a large number of Civil Servants really do not have any experience of the implementation of POlicy. They are thinking of new ideas without future proofing them.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Were there not a number of cicval servants how lost their jobs back in the 80,s over several Hm Govt matters ? I can't recall what over but was not one a woman ?

 

[Deleted User X18H]

Socialism will never work long term although this time they have had a good stab at.it The TORIES will be back in 2010 or 2011 and then those who are able to make the best of themselves will prosper once more and not get held back my the dross.

Look at the Albion for instance.

Under the Tories we get promoted to what is now the premier league and get to an F A Cup Final.

Days after Labour are installed The Albion have a crucial life threatening match against Hereford, a few months after Labour are installed The Goldstone is demolished.

Come on Cameron we are waiting for you.

 

[beorhthelm]

IThe DNA tests are only being rolled out in England and Wales? What is going on.?

The DNA database isnt being rolled out, its simply there, now today. any samples collected are recorded and if they indentify the owner they are entered along side their DNA. there is no deletion of the data, the police say its a usfull tool and *might* help identify a terrorist... so the governement has said ok, you keep it then and everyone on it, forever, irrespective of wether they commited a crime or not. im waiting for the first miscarriage of justice based, someone having been at a crime scene moments before but not having the foresight to not leave behind a trace, unlike the criminal who did. basically anyone will be a suspect in te future.

The VAT reduction mess.

I really feel that the Ministers and of course a large number of Civil Servants really do not have any experience of the implementation of POlicy. They are thinking of new ideas without future proofing them.

amazing isnt it. but it cant be inexperience, 10 years in power they should know the ropes by now. no this is good old fashion cockup, desperate to to be seen to do somthing and apparently got muddled up with what their purpose was. expensive and wont do anything. at least the proposal of a income tax reduction for 3/6 months would have benefited everyone and very visably. would have made for a very merry Christmas and probably wouldnt have cost as much either