[Politics] Labour manifesto 2024

[ozzygull]

It sounds appealing but it hasn't delivered anything useful in Scotland under the nationalism-under-cloak-of-socialism SNP

From what I understand we are paying more tax than ever before, either by stealth taxes or fiscal drag etc. So I am hoping, and this completely naive that if Labour do get elected that they don’t need to put taxes up anymore, just stop spaffing what they do get up the wall and actually use it to fix this mess the tories have left. I know it is not going to be instant, just to see small improvements would be nice.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You may see Labour tear the SNP apart on 4 July. Swinney/SNP took a bit of battering from the audience at the TV debate in Glasgow this week. His grandstanding attempts to rabble-rouse by blaming literally every failure on the Barnett Formula and the Sassenachs were generally mocked.

I heard a bit of it. After 'Brexit' they must realize that unless at least 60% of the Scotlectorate support independence, they can't ever 'win'. Given how unpopular the Tories seem to be in Scotchland, the SNP are now sucking on fumes. Instead of winning independence, their existence now is predicated simply by the need for the SNP to exist and provide people with seats in parliament, and income. All rather pointless, and maybe finally the Scotlectorate have realized this. Be part of the UK and engaged. Don't be . . . . silly.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I heard a bit of it. After 'Brexit' they must realize that unless at least 60% of the Scotlectorate support independence, they can't ever 'win'. Given how unpopular the Tories seem to be in Scotchland, the SNP are now sucking on fumes. Instead of winning independence, their existence now is predicated simply by the need for the SNP to exist and provide people with seats in parliament, and income. All rather pointless, and maybe finally the Scotlectorate have realized this. Be part of the UK and engaged. Don't be . . . . silly.

Now you've dealt with that, maybe you concentrate on the UK actually getting engaged in the world in which they live and not being ..... so silly

 

[amexer]

Whilst many happy to quote are happy to pay a bit more tax may not make much difference. Understand 80% plus of total tax income comes from the top 10% of earners. It would just be nice if any tax rises were coupled where this money is going. Like money raised from VAT on school fees. How good if this money went to state education. I dont do the lottery but certainly would if there was one that just raised money for eg NHS

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Now you've dealt with that, maybe you concentrate on the UK actually getting engaged in the world in which they live and not being ..... so silly

Och, er....aye!

 

[Weststander]

I think Labour will do an early deal with junior doctors, to get the last dispute with public support out of the way and help waiting lists. Nowhere near the 35% originally sought, of which they did receive 9% in 2023/24. Perhaps an additional and immediate 10% will do it, with promises of greater than inflation next two years?

 

[vegster]

I think Labour will do an early deal with junior doctors, to get the last dispute with public support out of the way and help waiting lists. Nowhere near the 35% originally sought, of which they did receive 9% in 2023/24. Perhaps an additional and immediate 10% will do it, with promises of greater than inflation next two years?

This and cast iron guarantees of an increase in numbers of trainee doctors too. Currently, the junior doctors are spread pretty thin and the demands of the job are horrendous, I know you can't just magic up trainee doctors but there needs to be more trainees to increase the numbers as the burn out rate is appalling.

 

[albionalba]

You may see Labour tear the SNP apart on 4 July. Swinney/SNP took a bit of battering from the audience at the TV debate in Glasgow this week. His grandstanding attempts to rabble-rouse by blaming literally every failure on the Barnett Formula and the Sassenachs were generally mocked.

I would like to think so but I'm not so sure. Also IF Scotland do remotely ok in their Euro group just watch that nationalism swell - and as I've posted before there's also the (albeit remote on all counts) chance that Scotland could be playing England just after the election with that week being a joyous lead in to the Auld Enemy. If that were to happen all bets would be off for Labour and it would impact their overall majority.

Understand 80% plus of total tax income comes from the top 10% of earners.

This is very true and at a Scottish level has driven talent away / stopped them taking jobs in Scotland in the first place - it could happen at a UK level too, although at least our poor language skills are a bit of a lock-in!

Now you've dealt with that, maybe you concentrate on the UK actually getting engaged in the world in which they live and not being ..... so silly

Indeed.

 

[Weststander]

I would like to think so but I'm not so sure. Also IF Scotland do remotely ok in their Euro group just watch that nationalism swell - and as I've posted before there's also the (albeit remote on all counts) chance that Scotland could be playing England just after the election with that week being a joyous lead in to the Auld Enemy. If that were to happen all bets would be off for Labour and it would impact their overall majority.

This is very true and at a Scottish level has driven talent away / stopped them taking jobs in Scotland in the first place - it could happen at a UK level too, although at least our poor language skills are a bit of a lock-in!


Indeed.

The same with corporation tax. Even the Nordic nations lowered their rates to match competitors. Large companies relocate.

 

[nicko31]

The elephant in the room

 

[Machiavelli]

I think Labour will do an early deal with junior doctors, to get the last dispute with public support out of the way and help waiting lists. Nowhere near the 35% originally sought, of which they did receive 9% in 2023/24. Perhaps an additional and immediate 10% will do it, with promises of greater than inflation next two years?

I think a solution like this is appealing for all parties. Junior doctors have lost 35% real-terms pay over 14 years. That can't be clawed back overnight. A one-off above-inflation real-terms pay rise of c5% followed by five years of inflation +c2% would not only end the dispute, it'd ensure there are no disputes in the next parliament.

 

[Weststander]

I think a solution like this is appealing for all parties. Junior doctors have lost 35% real-terms pay over 14 years. That can't be clawed back overnight. A one-off above-inflation real-terms pay rise of c5% followed by five years of inflation +c2% would not only end the dispute, it'd ensure there are no disputes in the next parliament.

A significantly higher starting salary would; raise morale, encourage recruitment and training, help folk survive. Under the media radar because it was good news, newly qualified teachers now earn a minimum £30k, it was way below this not so long ago, strikes ceased. For junior doctors, ending the reliance on extra hours.

 

[chip]

Training pay by year. Most people would be happy seeing their salary double in five years.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

The elephant in the room

Shameful

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A significantly higher starting salary would; raise morale, encourage recruitment and training, help folk survive. Under the media radar because it was good news, newly qualified teachers now earn a minimum £30k, it was way below this not so long ago, strikes ceased. For junior doctors, ending the reliance on extra hours.

View attachment 183993

Without wishing to appear contrary.....I saw a grant application to the British Heart Foundation about 5 years ago from a medic who wanted their salary paid for as part of a 3 year research programme they wanted funded. The total cost of the project would have been about £2 million over 3 years. The salary component was over £200K a year. And this medic wasn't even that 'senior'.

Given that the 'junior' doctors do most of the work, they should be paid much more, and as a consequence they might behave with a bit more gravitas. I'm not impressed with the 'young' ones (age 30-40) I interact with. Ambitious, disorganized, unimaginative, unreliable.....and most moonlighting at private clinics.

But all that said, the patriarchal system (promotion if your face fits) I saw 35 years ago seems thankfully to have disappeared.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I think Labour will do an early deal with junior doctors, to get the last dispute with public support out of the way and help waiting lists. Nowhere near the 35% originally sought, of which they did receive 9% in 2023/24. Perhaps an additional and immediate 10% will do it, with promises of greater than inflation next two years?

I wouldn’t rule out more teacher strikes if their % increase for the next academic year falls short.

Starting salary for new teachers is great, but experienced teachers pay will be a sticking point.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Shameful

I was 'remain' all day, and I still hope we will rejoin, but to clearly not create a vote-losing hostage to fortune by committing to another Brexit vote is not 'shameful.

Shameful would be to grandstand over something we can't hope to achieve ('rejoin') just like that, and lose a general election to a shower of grifters.

 

[Surrey Phil]

It’s time for change and really Labour can’t fail to get in this time around. However, pinning promises on significant economic growth is a colossal gamble. Row back only 4 years and there’s been a pandemic and a global financial crisis! It’s DeZerbi style with no plan B!!

 

[Weststander]

Without wishing to appear contrary.....I saw a grant application to the British Heart Foundation about 5 years ago from a medic who wanted their salary paid for as part of a 3 year research programme they wanted funded. The total cost of the project would have been about £2 million over 3 years. The salary component was over £200K a year. And this medic wasn't even that 'senior'.

Given that the 'junior' doctors do most of the work, they should be paid much more, and as a consequence they might behave with a bit more gravitas. I'm not impressed with the 'young' ones (age 30-40) I interact with. Ambitious, disorganized, unimaginative, unreliable.....and most moonlighting at private clinics.

But all that said, the patriarchal system (promotion if your face fits) I saw 35 years ago seems thankfully to have disappeared.

This parody was close to the truth in hospitals.

 

[Weststander]

I wouldn’t rule out more teacher strikes if their % increase for the next academic year falls short.

Starting salary for new teachers is great, but experienced teachers pay will be a sticking point.

£46.5k was the median teachers salary in 2023 (Sauce OSR, using pension scheme data for all 469k teachers).

But there was an anecdote (from @vegster I think) a while back that some devious heads/governors manipulate out perfectly good teachers at the top of pay scales.