Labour - Just DO ONE and have your conference somewhere else.

[drew]

Forgive me if I misunderstand the situation but was the banking collapse not at least a partial result of the de-regulation of the banking/ financial services sector that has taken place under this f***ing 'government'??!!
QUOTE]

This is something often quoted about de-regulation but can you actually tell me how and what this de-regulation did that caused the bankers to decide that it was ok to lend money to people that could never repay it

The rammifications of this would be shuddering. The seafront road is the only road going west to east if you want to travel along the coast. Its not being unreasonable to want to use this road. Yes there is an alternative of travelling north to lewes and then back down again but to have to travel 10 miles inland to then have to travel 6 miles south to get back onto the coast road is somewhat unreasonable in my book.

Not entirely sure of the geography but, assuming you live close the actual seafront, where exactly to you have to travel 10 miles inland to get to the A27?

 

[Easy 10]

That's the real point here - I unapologetically drive into town from my place: it's far more convenient for bringing shopping back, it's much quicker and I don't mind paying £2-3 to park, plus I tend to go in earlier than most because it's quieter then. All the time a private monopoly charges me more to provide a socially-aware alternative to line its coffers, I'll be struggling ever to convince myself to change.

Word.
It'd cost me and the missus the thick end of £8 for us to bus into town and back. We'll do it if we're going for a meal or out for a few drinks, but if I'm diving into town for a quick bit of shopping, then its a no brainer. I try to avoid the carparks as well (cos of the inevitable seafront queues), so I just drive round the backstreets till I get a space somewhere. Doesn't take long.

 

[Acker79]

From out of town too, making them even more likely to ignore the cycle lanes and walk across your path

And in groups chatting, meaning even if they are aware of the cycle lane, they're too busy chatting to realise how close to it they are or remembering to look before walking across it.

 

[Brovion]

That's the real point here - I unapologetically drive into town from my place: it's far more convenient for bringing shopping back, it's much quicker and I don't mind paying £2-3 to park, plus I tend to go in earlier than most because it's quieter then. All the time a private monopoly charges me more to provide a socially-aware alternative to line its coffers, I'll be struggling ever to convince myself to change.

Spot on. For my wife and I it's £7.20 from Fiveways to Churchill Square. If all four of us go it's nearly £15! £15 to get a bus into town! It's far cheaper to drive and put up with a bit of congestion and queueing; and in the car we've got our own music at out own volume and no chavs. Plus as you say the convienience of not lugging bags everywhere.

Consequently we've now officially given up on the buses in Brighton, the final straw was when we found out that whilst it's nearly £4 from Fiveways to Churchill Square and back it's only £5 return to Tunbridge Wells! If 'they' want us to use the buses they can f***ing bring the fares down to about a third of what they are now and stop treating us as a captive market to be robbed blind

 

[Pantani]

Spot on. For my wife and I it's £7.20 from Fiveways to Churchill Square. If all four of us go it's nearly £15! £15 to get a bus into town! It's far cheaper to drive and put up with a bit of congestion and queueing; and in the car we've got our own music at out own volume and no chavs. Plus as you say the convienience of not lugging bags everywhere.

Consequently we've now officially given up on the buses in Brighton, the final straw was when we found out that whilst it's nearly £4 from Fiveways to Churchill Square and back it's only £5 return to Tunbridge Wells! If 'they' want us to use the buses they can f***ing bring the fares down to about a third of what they are now and stop treating us as a captive market to be robbed blind

Agree that the bus fares are ludicrous. However do you really drive from Fiveways in to town? Why not walk it is a 30 minute walk max. Or ride then it is a ten minute journey. This is the kind of journey that needs to be stopped as it is totally unnecesary to drive that distance.

 

[Brovion]

Agree that the bus fares are ludicrous. However do you really drive from Fiveways in to town? Why not walk it is a 30 minute walk max. Or ride then it is a ten minute journey. This is the kind of journey that needs to be stopped as it is totally unnecesary to drive that distance.

Three reasons: Firstly I've got a bad back (and a hernia but that doesn't affect my walking). Walking down hill is ok but walking uphill causes me discomfort and can 'set it off' so that I have to spend some time flat on my back recuperating.

Secondly why do you think I go to Churchill Square? Yup, it's to go shopping, which means coming home with carrier bags. If you think I'm lugging a clutch of carrier bags up Ditchling Road with my aforementioned bad back you can think again.

And thirdly - because I can. Technological advancement means I don't HAVE to walk up and down Ditchling Road. I have a car, I can drive and there are car parks in Brighton. Plus it's quicker and cheaper than the bus and and MUCH quicker than walking. We've had this discussion before and I think the general consensus was that transport in Brighton required some radical thinking (out-of-town park 'n' rides, congestion charging, closing all city centre car parks, etc) as opposed to the spiteful, useless tinkering that passes for transport planning at the moment. Sadly because it needs radical planning it'll never happen, no one in Brighton has the balls to even propose it.

 

[London Calling]

Spot on. For my wife and I it's £7.20 from Fiveways to Churchill Square. If all four of us go it's nearly £15! £15 to get a bus into town! It's far cheaper to drive and put up with a bit of congestion and queueing; and in the car we've got our own music at out own volume and no chavs. Plus as you say the convienience of not lugging bags everywhere.

Consequently we've now officially given up on the buses in Brighton, the final straw was when we found out that whilst it's nearly £4 from Fiveways to Churchill Square and back it's only £5 return to Tunbridge Wells! If 'they' want us to use the buses they can f***ing bring the fares down to about a third of what they are now and stop treating us as a captive market to be robbed blind

Ridicolous fares.

But a result of privisation of bus services, that has clearly shown that private companies cannot run services as cheap as the public sector.

London, the biggest bus fleet in the world and my most expensive bus journey will cost me £1. And there is a maximum cost for using buses over a day of around £2.80.

If Brighton Conurbation had such a scheme, people would use buses more.

I am always surprised by the lack of buses going along the sea front, especially directly going up to the station, what is that all about?

Congestion Charge so effective in London, that even the new Mayor - Boris, who vowed to scrap part of it, has now realised that, its too good to lose.

You don't have to have a Conestion charge for all along the seafront, it could be just a charge for non Brighton City residents.

 

[Gwylan]

Ridicolous fares.

But a result of privisation of bus services, that has clearly shown that private companies cannot run services as cheap as the public sector.

London, the biggest bus fleet in the world and my most expensive bus journey will cost me £1. And there is a maximum cost for using buses over a day of around £2.80.

If Brighton Conurbation had such a scheme, people would use buses more.

I am always surprised by the lack of buses going along the sea front, especially directly going up to the station, what is that all about?

Congestion Charge so effective in London, that even the new Mayor - Boris, who vowed to scrap part of it, has now realised that, its too good to lose.

You don't have to have a Conestion charge for all along the seafront, it could be just a charge for non Brighton City residents.

Spot on.

Although I'm sure I'll live to see a congestion charge in Brighton - the pressure on traffic is just too great.

I can certainly understand people like Brovion driving in - while buses are so dear,it's a no-brainer to drive. But if there was a congestion charge of, say, £2 and the money raised would subsidise buses so an all-day ticket was £2.50, they may well be a lot more people who would use buses.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Ridicolous fares.

But a result of privisation of bus services, that has clearly shown that private companies cannot run services as cheap as the public sector.

London, the biggest bus fleet in the world and my most expensive bus journey will cost me £1. And there is a maximum cost for using buses over a day of around £2.80.

If Brighton Conurbation had such a scheme, people would use buses more.

I am always surprised by the lack of buses going along the sea front, especially directly going up to the station, what is that all about?

Congestion Charge so effective in London, that even the new Mayor - Boris, who vowed to scrap part of it, has now realised that, its too good to lose.

You don't have to have a Conestion charge for all along the seafront, it could be just a charge for non Brighton City residents.

I was at a meeting in an office at the junction of Conduit St & Regent St, last month, and there were approx 40 buses caught in the jams in Regent St, most having only a handful of passengers on board. To me this seems that the congestion charge is funding a service that is increasing the congestion on central Londons roads, whilst being grossly over supplied and severely under utilised.

 

[London Calling]

I was at a meeting in an office at the junction of Conduit St & Regent St, last month, and there were approx 40 buses caught in the jams in Regent St, most having only a handful of passengers on board. To me this seems that the congestion charge is funding a service that is increasing the congestion on central Londons roads, whilst being grossly over supplied and severely under utilised.

or it could be people jumped off the buses when they sussed out there was a jam ahead?

Actually buses in the centre of the London are not always the busiest, partly because there are so may of them, but the services tend to get full as they leave zone 1 and become a local bus. You really appreciate the congestion charge when you catch a bus like the 38, which could before Congestion Charge take a hour to travel from Hackney to Centre point - about 3.5 miles.

Now it will do it in a 30 mins or less.

 

[Brovion]

Ridicolous fares.

But a result of privisation of bus services, that has clearly shown that private companies cannot run services as cheap as the public sector.

....

Absolutely. The thing that the pro-bus people forget is that the GoAhead group or whoever it is aren't in existence to provide transport for Brighton and Hove - they exist to make a profit for their shareholders. That is there raison d'etre and selling an expensive service to people who have been actively denied an alternative mode of transport is simply the means by which they generate this profit. I know we've had this discussion before but it really does make my blood boil to know that they're aided and abbetted in their happy task of fleecing Brighton residents by a load of 'useful idiots' on the council (and outside).

I don't know how much they pay for the privilige of having a monopoly franchise but when it comes up for renewal (hopefully soon) I hope there's some hard bargaining from the council.

 

[The Large One]

Spot on.

Although I'm sure I'll live to see a congestion charge in Brighton - the pressure on traffic is just too great.

I can certainly understand people like Brovion driving in - while buses are so dear,it's a no-brainer to drive. But if there was a congestion charge of, say, £2 and the money raised would subsidise buses so an all-day ticket was £2.50, they may well be a lot more people who would use buses.

But a congestion charge would only work IF it was brought in in conjunction with a totally overhauled transport system - the centrepiece of which would be a proper Park & Ride scheme which visitors from out of town would be damn-near compelled to use.

I can't see a £2.00 tariff on its own (or even a £5.00 tariff) putting the casual private car visitor off.

 

[Nibble]

Spot on.

Although I'm sure I'll live to see a congestion charge in Brighton - the pressure on traffic is just too great.

I can certainly understand people like Brovion driving in - while buses are so dear,it's a no-brainer to drive. But if there was a congestion charge of, say, £2 and the money raised would subsidise buses so an all-day ticket was £2.50, they may well be a lot more people who would use buses.

I think the answer is to make busses cheaper not driving more expensive. Another example of the government taking the piss out of Brighton citizens. The problem is that in England we are treated as Subjects not citizens.

 

[The Large One]

I think the answer is to make busses cheaper not driving more expensive. Another example of the government taking the piss out of Brighton citizens. The problem is that in England we are treated as Subjects not citizens.

The government has only done it indirectly.

The fares are set by a private company.

 

[Nibble]

The government has only done it indirectly.

The fares are set by a private company.

Oh right, sorry didn't clock that. Either way I am against a congestion charge and I don't even drive in Brighton. A decent Park & Ride would do wonders do you think?

 

[Storer68]

I think the answer is to make busses cheaper not driving more expensive. Another example of the government taking the piss out of Brighton citizens. The problem is that in England we are treated as Subjects not citizens.

That's because we are SUBJECTS and NOT citizens

 

[Storer68]

I think the answer is to make busses cheaper not driving more expensive. Another example of the government taking the piss out of Brighton citizens. The problem is that in England we are treated as Subjects not citizens.

fyi
All About Us
We run a fleet of around 280 modern buses on local bus services as well as 8 luxury coaches available for private hire to meet any requirements.

We have been in the public transport business since running horse buses in the 1880s and we now have one of the most modern fleets of state-of-the-art vehicles. Most of our buses come equipped with easy access low floors so that buggies and wheelchairs are welcome aboard.

In our drive to contribute towards a cleaner environment, our entire bus fleet runs on biodiesel. The company was one of the first in the industry to use low sulphur fuel as soon as it became available and is also a market leader in the fitment of specialist equipment to reduce pollution of exhaust gases from bus engines. All our modern vehicles have particulate traps fitted on their exhausts. Further research is currently being undertaken by our fuel suppliers to try and improve the biodiesel content currently being manufactured to meet our increasing environmental targets.

Brighton & Hove has been a subsidiary of the Go-Ahead Group plc since 1993. The Go-Ahead philosophy is to run its transport companies as autonomous businesses in tune with the local market. At Brighton & Hove we have successfully grown the market for local bus travel by an average 5% each year since 1993, something which is unique in the bus industry.


Our buses run on an intensive network of local bus routes serving the conurbation of Brighton and Hove from Steyning and Shoreham through to Newhaven as well as longer distance routes to Eastbourne, Lewes, Ringmer and Tunbridge Wells. Since 2001 a flat rate fare has operated across the area from Shoreham in the west, Patcham and Falmer in the north and Newhaven in the east which together with a range of SAVER day tickets, and longer duaration options, has been succesful at making paying for bus travel easy and simple.

In the Brighton and Hove area we work in close partnership with Brighton & Hove Council as well as the neighbouring County Councils. They have been pursuing a strategy of encouraging more use of public transport and have introduced traffic management measures in the city with bus lanes and other priority measures for buses as well as improvements to bus stop areas. A new satellite based vehicle tracking system was introduced in 2002 in partnership with the Council which enables real time departure information to be displayed at many of the City's main bus stops and on the internet for every bus stop in the city.

We have also been investing in improving the quality of service. Frequencies of many bus routes have been improved over the last decade. Our award winning METRO network of the five most popular routes crossing the conurbation run every few minutes during the daytime. High frequencies on most other City bus routes make them attractive to use. There are two all night bus routes which cross the city providing convenient bus services 24 hours a day.

We are currently investing over £3 million each year on new buses and coaches to ensure our customers receive the benefits of the latest standards of comfort.

As well as the revolutionary flat fare system there are excellent deals available to meet the needs of children, teenagers, students and commuters.


We also ensure information is available by producing a comprehensive timetable book, Bus Times, twice each year as well as a travel magazine, On Route. We also have Travel Shops in Old Steine Brighton and at Brighton Station, 1 Stop Travel, which can provide you with tickets for coaches, trains and of course buses!

We are very much a part of the community we serve and all our modern double deck buses are named after characters who have made a contribution to the development of Brighton and Hove during their life.

 

[The Large One]

Oh right, sorry didn't clock that. Either way I am against a congestion charge and I don't even drive in Brighton. A decent Park & Ride would do wonders do you think?

One of the things that concerns me about a proper P&R scheme is that, because we haven't had a decent one in this city before (that Withdean half-arsed effort doesn't count), it would take a Herculean amount of marketing and awareness to have it be used properly.

For instance, taking Brovion's point into consideration about shopping at Churchill Square, while a lot of people come to Brighton for the shopping, a lot (especially in the summer) don't. They might be families or couples who are down for the beach or the beer in the sunshine, and don't want to offload their gear on to a bus three miles short of their destination. That kind of thing.

 

[Nibble]

fyi
All About Us
We run a fleet of around 280 modern buses on local bus services as well as 8 luxury coaches available for private hire to meet any requirements.

We have been in the public transport business since running horse buses in the 1880s and we now have one of the most modern fleets of state-of-the-art vehicles. Most of our buses come equipped with easy access low floors so that buggies and wheelchairs are welcome aboard.

In our drive to contribute towards a cleaner environment, our entire bus fleet runs on biodiesel. The company was one of the first in the industry to use low sulphur fuel as soon as it became available and is also a market leader in the fitment of specialist equipment to reduce pollution of exhaust gases from bus engines. All our modern vehicles have particulate traps fitted on their exhausts. Further research is currently being undertaken by our fuel suppliers to try and improve the biodiesel content currently being manufactured to meet our increasing environmental targets.

Brighton & Hove has been a subsidiary of the Go-Ahead Group plc since 1993. The Go-Ahead philosophy is to run its transport companies as autonomous businesses in tune with the local market. At Brighton & Hove we have successfully grown the market for local bus travel by an average 5% each year since 1993, something which is unique in the bus industry.


Our buses run on an intensive network of local bus routes serving the conurbation of Brighton and Hove from Steyning and Shoreham through to Newhaven as well as longer distance routes to Eastbourne, Lewes, Ringmer and Tunbridge Wells. Since 2001 a flat rate fare has operated across the area from Shoreham in the west, Patcham and Falmer in the north and Newhaven in the east which together with a range of SAVER day tickets, and longer duaration options, has been succesful at making paying for bus travel easy and simple.

In the Brighton and Hove area we work in close partnership with Brighton & Hove Council as well as the neighbouring County Councils. They have been pursuing a strategy of encouraging more use of public transport and have introduced traffic management measures in the city with bus lanes and other priority measures for buses as well as improvements to bus stop areas. A new satellite based vehicle tracking system was introduced in 2002 in partnership with the Council which enables real time departure information to be displayed at many of the City's main bus stops and on the internet for every bus stop in the city.

We have also been investing in improving the quality of service. Frequencies of many bus routes have been improved over the last decade. Our award winning METRO network of the five most popular routes crossing the conurbation run every few minutes during the daytime. High frequencies on most other City bus routes make them attractive to use. There are two all night bus routes which cross the city providing convenient bus services 24 hours a day.

We are currently investing over £3 million each year on new buses and coaches to ensure our customers receive the benefits of the latest standards of comfort.

As well as the revolutionary flat fare system there are excellent deals available to meet the needs of children, teenagers, students and commuters.


We also ensure information is available by producing a comprehensive timetable book, Bus Times, twice each year as well as a travel magazine, On Route. We also have Travel Shops in Old Steine Brighton and at Brighton Station, 1 Stop Travel, which can provide you with tickets for coaches, trains and of course buses!

We are very much a part of the community we serve and all our modern double deck buses are named after characters who have made a contribution to the development of Brighton and Hove during their life.

You're still a bunch of rip off merchants though eh?!

 

[Nibble]

And to add, most European cities do all that with their tram and bus systems and charge way less and don't constantly threaten industrial action or keep hikingthe prices up. To be honest the compnay spiel you just regurgitated is the least I would expect from public transport in the 21st Century.