Labour in deep shit

[tedebear]

And therefore, those that don't vote - tough luck. They had the chance to vote and exercised their democratic right not to.

which returns me to my point that these people shouldn't moan then as they have no right - if they are serious enough then form a political party to represent their own views??

 

[Highfields Seagull]

which returns me to my point that these people shouldn't moan then as they have no right - if they are serious enough then form a political party to represent their own views??

Indeed - and on that I totally agree.

 

[tedebear]

The select few in the uk is still over 25% at least.

Dont you think that people are aware that if they dont vote then the election is left to others?

Or do you think people think "well if I dont vote there wont be a government", dont be so arrogant.

arrogant?

you underestimate me - how can 25% of the UK represent 100% of the people, and as for me thinking that people will think that there will be a government if they don't vote - don't be absurd....

I'm simply saying my view is that people on the whole would like to see issues and problems addressed in their society - if they don't vote how can they have a say??

 

[looney]

arrogant?

you underestimate me - how can 25% of the UK represent 100% of the people, and as for me thinking that people will think that there will be a government if they don't vote - don't be absurd....

I'm simply saying my view is that people on the whole would like to see issues and problems addressed in their society - if they don't vote how can they have a say??

What makes you so sure that everyone wants a say?

 

[CHAPPERS]

What makes you so sure that everyone wants a say?

Poeple love to moan but in most cases can't be arsed to do anything about what they're moaning about.

 

[tedebear]

What makes you so sure that everyone wants a say?

well they are more than happy to moan about the state of the NHS or pension funding?? how can you be sure all those people do or don't vote?

 

[looney]

Ive known people who voted tory moan about them and the same for labour including some on here.

So what?
Are you saying people who dont vote have no right to speak there minds?
Does this include foreigners and the under 18 or just those who choose not to vote?

Its a bit like saying if you dont hunt foxes or are not a sabatour you shouldn't comment on fox hunting.

 

[looney]

What you said implies that everyone who voted labour in the last election shouldn't complain about their polices. After all They VOTED for them, only those who participated and voted for another party have the right to protest.

Let me put it another way.

If you cant complain if you didn't vote how can you complain for the shower you voted for if they get in?

 

[tedebear]

its their not there!! spelling please...

I don't think people who don't vote have a right - simply! I'm not talking about having a moan down the pub on a friday night thats different - I'm talking about organised protesting against education or hospital funding or going to war.....do those people all vote? I wouldn't bet on it....


and your next response brings me back to my former comment ..... for those who do vote:

Voting isn't asking everyone to chose a perfect outcome? Its asking them to chose from the available options - if they feel so strongly about not voting then the question is why - and what are they going to do about it...

 

[looney]

What can anyone do about the electral system? Its never a manifesto issue and tends to be interpreted by parties in a way that purely favours them.

If some scruffy oik wishes to rant about something and not vote fine.
Democracy is favoured for the simple reason it brings about the peacefull change in gov rather than armed insurrection.

Protest is a different issue.

 

[tedebear]

What can anyone do about the electral system? Its never a manifesto issue and tends to be interpreted by parties in a way that purely favours them.

Shouldn't people use the system that is imposed on them to fight for what they believe in? If they don't fight then what the point of them having an opinion? If they don't like the system then tough! name another system that caters to the majority of the population?

 

[looney]

You seem to overlook the point that a lot of people dont vote cos they are content with the status quo. There just not pissed of enough.

Shouldn't people use the system that is imposed on them to fight for what they believe in?

If enough people want to and are determined enough then it will happen, maybe people are more content than the political classes,or some of them, would have us beleive.

If they don't fight then what the point of them having an opinion?

pacifists? Why do you have to have an opinion thats contra to the status quo? Some agree with the SQ, some may not veiw their ideas as electrolly relevent, shape shifting aliens for example.

name another system that caters to the majority of the population?

This one, because the majority of people voted in the last election.

If you wish to increase the amount of issues catered for you either go for single issue parties or campaign for more direct democracy.

 

[tedebear]

shape shifting aliens for example.

true re the pacifists, but not my point. My point was initially directed to people who are not happy with the status quo? People who are happy to bemoan the current societal issues but lazy enough not to walk the 50 footsteps to the local polling both?

 

[looney]

true re the pacifists, but not my point. My point was initially directed to people who are not happy with the status quo? People who are happy to bemoan the current societal issues but lazy enough not to walk the 50 footsteps to the local polling both?

How do you know they dont vote? Most seem to be labour student types plus SWP who dont stand and tell there members not to vote.

 

[Dandyman]

Shouldn't people use the system that is imposed on them to fight for what they believe in? If they don't fight then what the point of them having an opinion? If they don't like the system then tough! name another system that caters to the majority of the population?

This all seems to assume that one vote every five years equates with democracy.

IMHO there is more genuine engagement with democracy by campaigning/raising awareness of/making an issue of issues you believe in than being obliged to vote for some indentikit piece of Westminster voting fodder.

 

[looney]

A woman finaly shut up and didn't have the last word, now theres a first!!!!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No big mystery -other than maybe why they never mention Brent WEST...

Labour supporters either didn't vote in the bye-election or - if they're RILLY DEAD KEEN ON VOTING - voted Lib Dem. Ginger Tosser Charlie boy Kennedy's stance on the Iraq War (and there's probably about ten people outside his paid staff who are genned up on that one) counts for jackshit. Labour supporters will do all sorts of things apart from Vote Tory while Tony B.Liar's in power. It's the nearest the common man gets to giving B.Liar a good slapping.

It's the same reason otherwise sane people vote for The Greens in the European Elections. It's the safe option for people who have nagging doubts about either not voting or spoiling their vote. Commendable, but it's still not voting with either your head or your heart. Which is SLOPPY THINKING (so don't get smart here - cos you ain't)

 

[Sigull]

It's the same reason otherwise sane people vote for The Greens in the European Elections. It's the safe option for people who have nagging doubts about either not voting or spoiling their vote. Commendable, but it's still not voting with either your head or your heart. Which is SLOPPY THINKING (so don't get smart here - cos you ain't) [/B]

So voting Green in the hope of a hung parliament wont work then ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Uh, nope...

 

[Sigull]

OK I wont vote then....slopes off in despair...