[Brighton] King Alfred

[symyjym]

How many different suns are there shining down on Hove?

Four by the looks of it

 

[Half Time Pies]

Yes, that's true. But the point is: it's possible (even advantageous) to build in a recession and the reason that we didn't is for a political reason (the need to keep house prices high, as so many people were property owners).

And, yes, the banks did become risk adverse but that's because there had been a political imperative to make this a home-owning economy and, as such, there were too many bad loans made. The situation had been even worse in the US, hence the global crash. Again, that's not because of the recession per se but because of the political situation in the UK.

As HT pointed out, it didn't have to be that way, Germany (which is not home-owning) took advantage of the recession to build, build and build.

I would be fully in support of a change in the way that we view home ownership and house building in this country but I think the point actually was 'if it was possible to get projects like this off the ground during a recession?' which I doubt it is/ was with the UK economy geared in the way that it currently is.

As you say there is to much vested interest in maintaining the status quo and a cultural belief has now developed that it should be everyones right to get on the property ladder and benefit from house price inflation so I doubt this is going to change any time soon.

 

[Triggaaar]

As I said, much of the housing development in our city was during the recession of the 30s: Moulsecoomb, Patcham, Hollingbury, chunks of Hove, a bit of Coldean were all built then.

Seriously? Buildings aren't quite the same as they used to be.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would be fully in support of a change in the way that we view home ownership and house building in this country but I think the point actually was 'if it was possible to get projects like this off the ground during a recession?' which I doubt it is/ was with the UK economy geared in the way that it currently is.

As you say there is to much vested interest in maintaining the status quo and a cultural belief has now developed that it should be everyones right to get on the property ladder and benefit from house price inflation so I doubt this is going to change any time soon.

It’s not just housing though. Germany took the opportunity to invest and build in all manner of things from buildings to infrastructure; for example I got 3 new tramlines outside my front door. Money, labour, services, goods are all way cheaper in a recession plus it keeps people in work. In Germany it was a political decision to do this. In the U.K. it was a political decision to not do this.

 

[Weststander]

Our economy is very different now to what it was in the 1930's, in many ways we have an economy that is now based around house price inflation and cheap credit. House builders restrict supply in order to keep prices high and the psychology of the nation is that prices always go up, hence in a slump nobody buys. Following the 2008 crisis the banks also became risk adverse and stopped lending so it would have been very difficult to get a large housing project off the ground.

The planning system in England restricts the number of new homes. I know from many businesses and families I’ve acted and act for that many councils (eg BHCC, LDC, SDNP) and existing residents fight the vast majority of brownfield, urban fringe and greenfield developments every step of the way. Meaning that even modest brownfield developments in Brighton, Hove and Lewes take many, many years to get planning permission .... if lucky.

In France and Germany, whether it be new housing, railway lines or tram lines, the authorities simply get on with it, the views of existing residents and opposing landowners are far less powerful. France and Spain build high speed rail networks and huge new satellite towns wherever the wish, very rapidly.

Not saying that the latter is better or worse, just the way it is.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Yes absolutely crazy for the government to claim we needed austerity whilst at the same time the Bank of England was effectively creating billons of pounds of QE money to plough into the money markets and artificially inflate asset prices. If only we had instead used that money for infrastructure projects.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Weststander's Avatar
Weststander said:
Today 17:33
Quote Originally Posted by Half Time Pies View Post
The planning system in England restricts the number of new homes. I know from many businesses and families I’ve acted and act for that many councils (eg BHCC, LDC, SDNP) and existing residents fight the vast majority of brownfield, urban fringe and greenfield developments every step of the way. Meaning that even modest brownfield developments in Brighton, Hove and Lewes take many, many years to get planning permission .... if lucky.

In France and Germany, whether it be new housing, railway lines or tram lines, the authorities simply get on with it, the views of existing residents and opposing landowners are far less powerful. France and Spain build high speed rail networks and huge new satellite towns wherever the wish, very rapidly.

Not saying that the latter is better or worse, just the way it is.


It does, but the house builders also have a role to play in restricting supply to prevent prices from dropping. There is an incredible amount of land out there with planning permission in place which is not being built on, something like over 400,000 homes, and the time from planning permission being granted to homes being built has extended by 8 months in the last few years. At the same time the likes of persimmons have been making ridiculous profits off the back of the Help to Buy scheme which has allowed them to add 20% to asking prices. Something needs to be done to tackle this issue.

 

[blue-shifted]

Indeed. One of the biggest booms in housing in British history was in the 30s, when we were in an economic slump. Much of Brighton's outskirts were developed in this period - it's when the house I grew up in Moulsecoomb was built. Interest rates are low, making it easier to borrow and labour costs are relatively low too.

I agree with you Gwylan. I'd add the biggest difference between the building in the 1930s and now is that we are now entirely reliant on multinational developers to gey almost anything built. During previous recessions, far sighted governments and councils (and i suppose enterprising individuals) would build themselves, knowing it's the best way to get past the hard times. The idea of a council building something as complicated, even as a house in 2019, is totally fanciful. I sometimes wonder if that's where we are going wrong.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Questions]

Oxo flavoured crisps in the bowling alley after a swim in waters so chorinated they had us seeing 'mist' out of our red eyes for hours after we'd towelled off. And that isn't a euphemism.

I won the Blue Ribbon Sussex Championship at ten pin bowling within my average band at The King Alfred And will always have such fond memories of the place. It was a bit tatty and a bit claustrophobic but I always bowled well there.

 

[Albion Prem]

View attachment 114286

Two Victorian women walking along the Prom my arse.

The Gehry plot was to get high density housing on a small plot. Never liked the design and very dated now without being exposed to the sea for the last 10 years.

The project fell through because ING Real Estate went bust in 2008 bank crisis and Hove Grammar Boy Josh Arghiros couldn’t find an oil Sheikh prepared to fund the KARIS project.

Thank goodness it was not built,what a mess

 

[Albion Prem]

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/178...multi-million-pound-king-alfred-regeneration/

Really disappointing news that Crest have pulled out of this development. The King Alfred project was not perfect but the facilities are not fit for purpose. We deserve better. What makes matters worse is our wet Council not signing a contract. Agree with the councillor - heads need to roll from the Labour Councillors.

Our City deserves much better.

Rant over.

Agree very disappointing however we still have the Isore

 

[DumLum]

At least the Black Rock Ice Rink hasn't suffered these delays.

 

[Saunders]

Thank goodness it was not built,what a mess

Also around 2008 a few of his buildings were having a lot of problems to the point where he was being sued and there were some question marks over the design. Another reason why they changed their mind.

 

[symyjym]

So Rob Starr, the developer who beat LCE Architects to the KA proposal, is now vowing to find another developer to take over the development from himself.

I can still deliver King Alfred' – Rob Starr finds new developer

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/178...ng-alfred-39---rob-starr-finds-new-developer/

Does he even deserve another chance to progress with a different firm from the proposal?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So Rob Starr, the developer who beat LCE Architects to the KA proposal, is now vowing to find another developer to take over the development from himself.

I can still deliver King Alfred' – Rob Starr finds new developer

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/178...ng-alfred-39---rob-starr-finds-new-developer/

Does he even deserve another chance to progress with a different firm from the proposal?

That's one dodgy-looking geezer

 

[symyjym]

That's one dodgy-looking geezer

Last time I looked at his Starr Trust returns as a charity I seem to remember they paid out a very high percentage in wages. Maybe as much as 90% in one of the years I looked at. It might be different today to be fair.

 

[NorthLainer]

That's one dodgy-looking geezer

Only had vicarious dealings with him so can't comment personally, but he is a bit of a marmite character - some people speak VERY highly of him ,others regard him as a bit odd. My main issue re the King Alfred is his self proclaimed main qualification for leading a project like this is he had absolutely not qualifications in leading a project like this. I wonder if that has contributed to Crest withdrawing.

 

[nordicgod]

Do what they do in the rest of the city , build student flats because we don’t have enough of them , ohh and think of how much council tax it brings in , ohh hang on

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Do what they do in the rest of the city , build student flats because we don’t have enough of them , ohh and think of how much council tax it brings in , ohh hang on

Well there's many other ways that students contribute to the general good of the town. Not least by manning the Amex catering kiosks. And the huge influx of Chinese students all seem pretty well-to-do and will all be spending big chunks of their allowance SOMEWHERE around town, thereby pumping money into the general local economy. Oh, and Boots in London Road is about to be demolished (and relocated directly across the road) so more student flats can be built. It'll be quite some time til London Road can afford to turn its nose up at further gentrification. It's all good IMHO. Full-on pedestrianisation would transform the place in two shakes of a lamb's tail. Soon come.