Kevin Pietersens England career over.

[vegster]

Just had a thought, how come KP did not feature in the T20 squad for the matches against Australia ? Surely given the restrictions of field placings and the batsman friendly bowling limitations re bouncers and wides, that should have been the best medium for KP to play like KP without the worry of getting out stupidly. Or, did they think he was so disruptive and divisive they did not want him him upsetting another squads morale ?

 

[spring hall convert]

Just had a thought, how come KP did not feature in the T20 squad for the matches against Australia ? Surely given the restrictions of field placings and the batsman friendly bowling limitations re bouncers and wides, that should have been the best medium for KP to play like KP without the worry of getting out stupidly. Or, did they think he was so disruptive and divisive they did not want him him upsetting another squads morale ?

Upset or no upset, the results weren't wildly different.

 

[sten_super]

I'm harsh on Rankin, Borthwick, Ballance, Woakes & Kerrigan who haven't had enough of a chance yet (having said that none of them pulled up any trees...) and yes, you are right of them Ballance looks like he has what it takes but have a look at our new test caps since 2010 & it is utterly grim. Trott is arguably the last player we successfully brought into the side & consitently performed.

Yet all of sudden we think we can replace an opening batsman, a middle order batsman, a front line spin bowler, a seamer & possibly a wicketkeeper. Thereavinalaugh.

I think this comes back to the strength of county cricket. Yes, I know that the idea of merging counties isn't very popular, but at least if there was a smaller pool of players playing every week it'd be much more apparent who's actually half decent. As it is Woakes gets a look in because his savvy fast-medium bowling takes shedloads of wickets and he knocks out a lot of runs lower down the order, even though neither suit is really good enough for Test cricket, while Kerrigan takes a lot of wickets for Lancs but is seemingly mentally fragile. County cricket success is no indication of Test-level ability - so picking a player that has done well there is still a massive risk. I very much hope that Sam Robson gets a call up in the summer if he continues to churn out runs, but realistically no-one knows quite how good he is until he's played for England.

 

[jakarta]

I think this comes back to the strength of county cricket. Yes, I know that the idea of merging counties isn't very popular, but at least if there was a smaller pool of players playing every week it'd be much more apparent who's actually half decent. As it is Woakes gets a look in because his savvy fast-medium bowling takes shedloads of wickets and he knocks out a lot of runs lower down the order, even though neither suit is really good enough for Test cricket, while Kerrigan takes a lot of wickets for Lancs but is seemingly mentally fragile. County cricket success is no indication of Test-level ability - so picking a player that has done well there is still a massive risk. I very much hope that Sam Robson gets a call up in the summer if he continues to churn out runs, but realistically no-one knows quite how good he is until he's played for England.

This has been argued many times and assumes that the only reason for County Cricket is to produce Test Players, which it isn't.

 

[sten_super]

This has been argued many times and assumes that the only reason for County Cricket is to produce Test Players, which it isn't.

I don't agree. Without the mega TV deals for the England team what state would county cricket be in? What's the average attendance for a four-day county game? Have as many teams as you want for slap-and-tickle cricket, but the current bloated four-day game doesn't really suit anyone - counties make no money from it and TV/radio doesn't really want to show it.

Besides which, it was in response to the criticism that players have come in to the England team and not performed - my point is that it's impossible to regularly have battle-hardened ready-for-Test-cricket players pushing for selection without more intensity in county cricket. It may be that's an acceptable state of affairs, but then IMHO people shouldn't complain about players not being quite ready for international cricket from the off.

 

[spring hall convert]

I don't agree. Without the mega TV deals for the England team what state would county cricket be in? What's the average attendance for a four-day county game? Have as many teams as you want for slap-and-tickle cricket, but the current bloated four-day game doesn't really suit anyone - counties make no money from it and TV/radio doesn't really want to show it.

Besides which, it was in response to the criticism that players have come in to the England team and not performed - my point is that it's impossible to regularly have battle-hardened ready-for-Test-cricket players pushing for selection without more intensity in county cricket. It may be that's an acceptable state of affairs, but then IMHO people shouldn't complain about players not being quite ready for international cricket from the off.

This is such an emotive area to get into. I'd be all for a reduction of the number of counties playing 4 day cricket. Would I be up for Sussex CCC ceasing to be? No way, not even for the good of English cricket.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Dominic Cork has said on Radio 5 that one of the reasons he was sacked is that he squared up to Cook.When a player shows such disrespect to the captain something has too be done.

Michael Vaughan says that talk of KP squaring up to Cook in the dressing room at Sydney are utter lies.

 

[jakarta]

I don't agree. Without the mega TV deals for the England team what state would county cricket be in? What's the average attendance for a four-day county game? Have as many teams as you want for slap-and-tickle cricket, but the current bloated four-day game doesn't really suit anyone - counties make no money from it and TV/radio doesn't really want to show it.

Besides which, it was in response to the criticism that players have come in to the England team and not performed - my point is that it's impossible to regularly have battle-hardened ready-for-Test-cricket players pushing for selection without more intensity in county cricket. It may be that's an acceptable state of affairs, but then IMHO people shouldn't complain about players not being quite ready for international cricket from the off.

Well I suppose it would be in the position it was before the mega TV deals, catering for those that want to watch County Cricket.
The idea of a 'bloated' four day schedule is rubbish - yes Counties play too much limited over stuff but that is a separate issue.

I'm a Sussex member and watch far more County Cricket than Test Cricket, including 4 day games.

Absolutely absurd that County Cricket has to take the fall for terrible management of the England Team over this Winter, it doesn't occur to you that it was County Cricket that produced a team that won 3 Ashes series on the bounce?

 

[sten_super]

Well I suppose it would be in the position it was before the mega TV deals, catering for those that want to watch County Cricket.
The idea of a 'bloated' four day schedule is rubbish - yes Counties play too much limited over stuff but that is a separate issue.

I'm a Sussex member and watch far more County Cricket than Test Cricket, including 4 day games.

Absolutely absurd that County Cricket has to take the fall for terrible management of the England Team over this Winter, it doesn't occur to you that it was County Cricket that produced a team that won 3 Ashes series on the bounce?

This is all a question of perspective though, isn't it?

Ask an accountant at any of the counties and they'd tell you there's too much four day cricket and not enough t20. Ask a purist and the opposite is true.

My perspective is that some of the lesser lights in the county scene get a large amount of money from the ECB and I'm not sure quite what the benefit is; the best young players would likely get picked up by other counties, I'm not sure what a 4 day game against a (for example) poor Leicestershire team teaches a young pro about playing Test cricket, and the counties aren't sustainable without the ECB grant. The horse had probably bolted in terms of controlling player wages, so I don't think it's a easy as going back to the pre-Sky days.

I don't think your last point is an accurate portrayal of my position. I'm not blaming County cricket for the crappy tour - I am though saying it's a large part of the reason we don't have anything like ready made replacements available. A number of the recently successful team took a while to get acclimatised to Test cricket (Broad, Anderson, Bell, Prior off the top of my head) and there's no reason to think that the next generation (e.g. Ballance) won't do the same; but it'll take time. My point is that I don't think you can have your cake (a constantly successful England team) and eat it (have a large County game).

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

My sister would not like them. She was born in Kenya and lived there for 6 months, so she must be Kenyan then. Oh, and Cliff Richard is Indian.

KP's mother is English.

KZNSeagull respect to you and all of your posts since Ive been on NSC----you always talk sense.
Perhaps I have become too cynical in my 57years
If my son's wife took my grandchild back to China in six months to live(unlikely I hope) at what time would he become Chinese?
He is four years old.
I admit I'm confused

 

[vegster]

Michael Vaughan says that talk of KP squaring up to Cook in the dressing room at Sydney are utter lies.

I heard that story was denied too, however, it seems the meeting to decide KP's fate actually lasted 3 minutes and that Cook was fully involved in the decision.

 

[joeinbrighton]

His selective injuries will prevent him playing 4 day cricket for Surrey. He only performed for Surrey when playing himself back into England contention from injury, Headingly last year against Yorkshire. Since then all his 4 day games were for England and should have been 5 days...........

His selective injuries as you refer to them were presumably due to him trying to save himself for England, as most cricketers who have a central contract do to some degree or another. With England no longer in the picture, he will presumably want to play cricket of any kind as often as he can. Added to which, if Pietersen blitzes 2nd division attacks next season and helps himself to a hatful of runs and helps Surrey to get promoted, it will be difficult to ignore his performances and that would present a glimmer, just a glimmer, of a chance that the England selectors could be tempted to have a rethink. That has to be his incentive, to play so well he cannot be ignored, especially if England are having problems in his absence.

 

[KZNSeagull]

KZNSeagull respect to you and all of your posts since Ive been on NSC----you always talk sense.
Perhaps I have become too cynical in my 57years
If my son's wife took my grandchild back to China in six months to live(unlikely I hope) at what time would he become Chinese?
He is four years old.
I admit I'm confused

Well that's very kind of you to say so. Many would disagree I'm sure!

Anyway, as to your Grandchild, he already has dual nationality, I would say. He is certainly entitled to a British passport and a Chinese one too, so my guess would be that he is already English and Chinese. You get nationality from your parents and usually your place of birth - my youngest son was born here so he is English as both his parents are English but also South African as he was born here. We are not supposed to have dual nationality, but most that can, do.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Well that's very kind of you to say so. Many would disagree I'm sure!

Anyway, as to your Grandchild, he already has dual nationality, I would say. He is certainly entitled to a British passport and a Chinese one too, so my guess would be that he is already English and Chinese. You get nationality from your parents and usually your place of birth - my youngest son was born here so he is English as both his parents are English but also South African as he was born here. We are not supposed to have dual nationality, but most that can, do.

So its a win -win for my Grandchild then
To be honest tho I still can't understand how the England cricket team has so few English blokes playing for us

 

[joeinbrighton]

To be honest tho I still can't understand how the England cricket team has so few English blokes playing for us

Because people's narrow view of nationality has changed due to more people than ever moving out of the place they were born in and settling in another as a result of the ease of travel now.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Because people's narrow view of nationality has changed due to more people than ever moving out of the place they were born in and settling in another as a result of the ease of travel now.

My 'Narrow' view is probably due to my age----you sound like you're in your twenties---am I wrong? if so I apologise.
That doesn't explain why most of the England team in the last two decades have South African/Australian accents.

 

[joeinbrighton]

My 'Narrow' view is probably due to my age----you sound like you're in your twenties---am I wrong?

On a good day, I feel like it! I'm actually 35.

 

[Beach Hut]

Awesome cricketer and a real snub from England as he has previously destroyed opposition single-handedly at times and had plenty to offer.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

On a good day, I feel like it! I'm actually 35.

Just goes to show how when you read posts you haven't a clue who your talking to

 

[KZNSeagull]

My 'Narrow' view is probably due to my age----you sound like you're in your twenties---am I wrong? if so I apologise.
That doesn't explain why most of the England team in the last two decades have South African/Australian accents.

Essentially because we do not appear to be very good at producing "home grown" talent, for whatever reason.