Ken Livingstone Suspended

[BadFish]

I'm not sure who you are referring to, can you please clarify? (See post #31 for my opinion)

I was referring to those people calling others anti Semite for criticising Israel. I wasn't suggesting you had done this merely adding a little balance to your observation in the post I quoted.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I was referring to those people calling others anti Semite for criticising Israel. I wasn't suggesting you had done this merely adding a little balance to your observation in the post I quoted.

Ah I thought it had something to do with past discussions we had on another topic, my mistake.

Balance away but I think it's pretty clear the rank hypocrisy is mainly on one side as are the many examples of anti semitism.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Why is not liking Islam a phobia (islamophobia), similar to not liking spiders or ghosts. Whereas not liking Jews is an ism (anti semitism), like racism or sexism?

Besides this lingual point I would just like to point out that I think it is patently ridiculous that anyone could tarnish the Labour Party as anti-Semitic. It might fit certain people's agendas, but if you actually believe that thenyou are a fool. All parties have nut jobs. It's an unfortunate consequence of having a whole load of people under a broad belief.

Really what is actually more worrying than the party in opposition is the the party in power's beliefs, and, indeed, the policies that they are enacting as you all waste typespace on whether Israel is a good or bad thing.

Look at the things that are currently going on in this country: Jeremy Hunt is bringing the NHS to it's knees forcing through a universally unpopular contract that is clearly the thin end of the wedge for worse working conditions for all NHS workers. Nicola Morgan is forcing Academy status on EVERY school in the country despite teacher opposition and no evidence it improves schools. Zac Goldsmithis leading probably the most religiously divisive campaign in living memory. Boris Johnson stating that Obama hates Britain because he is part Kenyan, and therefore bears a colonial grudge. This from a man who once said of Africa 'The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge anymore.

All of that is much worse, so much worse, than this petty argument about what is anti-semitism and what is anti-Zionism and they are all things that directly affect you. And it doesn't even mention that Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Marine Le Pen, Ian Duncan Smith and George Gallaway want to lead us out of the EU into a dystopian vision of a poorer Britain with barbed wire on the cliff tops and never ending trade deal negotiations

 

[BadFish]

Ah I thought it had something to do with past discussions we had on another topic, my mistake.

Balance away but I think it's pretty clear the rank hypocrisy is mainly on one side as are the many examples of anti semitism.

As many comments in those discussions about Islam are examples of islamophobia.

Again just to add balance .

 

[Albion my Albion]

From what I can gather, he is a critic of Israel not anti Jews in general.
I too despise the brutal regime of Netanyahu and his supporters - does that make me "anti semetic"....No

Why should Israel be above criticism? If Russia is criticised the critic is not pilloried as anti slavonic, or whatever the adjective would be...

Anti-Putin

Which is a feeling that you must detroy all the rubbish political rhetoric or the woman married to your uncle takout

 

[pastafarian]

Why is not liking Islam a phobia (islamophobia), similar to not liking spiders or ghosts. Whereas not liking Jews is an ism (anti semitism), like racism or sexism?

Besides this lingual point I would just like to point out that I think it is patently ridiculous that anyone could tarnish the Labour Party as anti-Semitic. It might fit certain people's agendas, but if you actually believe that thenyou are a fool. All parties have nut jobs. It's an unfortunate consequence of having a whole load of people under a broad belief.

Really what is actually more worrying than the party in opposition is the the party in power's beliefs, and, indeed, the policies that they are enacting as you all waste typespace on whether Israel is a good or bad thing.

Look at the things that are currently going on in this country: Jeremy Hunt is bringing the NHS to it's knees forcing through a universally unpopular contract that is clearly the thin end of the wedge for worse working conditions for all NHS workers. Nicola Morgan is forcing Academy status on EVERY school in the country despite teacher opposition and no evidence it improves schools. Zac Goldsmithis leading probably the most religiously divisive campaign in living memory. Boris Johnson stating that Obama hates Britain because he is part Kenyan, and therefore bears a colonial grudge. This from a man who once said of Africa 'The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge anymore.

All of that is much worse, so much worse, than this petty argument about what is anti-semitism and what is anti-Zionism and they are all things that directly affect you. And it doesn't even mention that Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Marine Le Pen, Ian Duncan Smith and George Gallaway want to lead us out of the EU into a dystopian vision of a poorer Britain with barbed wire on the cliff tops and never ending trade deal negotiations

quite astonishing you consider anti Semitism in the Labour Party as a petty argument.
speaks volumes about the level of denial amongst Labour supporters of a problem within Labour concerning anti Semitism.
Accept there is a problem ,all other political parties do admit problems in their ranks, and try hard to stamp it out. Labour MP`s and supporters denying there is a problem at all on this whole issue is utterly vile but not unexpected considering who is in charge

 

[looney]

Or even those who cry foul when called out as islamophobes and racists when when offering their opinions on Islamic extremists doing exactly the same here and calling people anti semites when they express an opinion on Israel. Hoisted by their own petard indeed.

It would seem many people on all sides of political debate are happy to use this lazy method of shutting down debate.

Thanks for posting this, you have provided a blue print argument of what is wrong in these debates. If you care to quote a couple of these examples you will see a big difference.

when I have called someone on their anti-S bullshit I have given specific reasons why i consider it AS. Theresponce has usually been "You are wrong", this is not a reply but just a noise. They needed to post reasons why I was wrong to make it a reasoned debate rather than a noise making contest.

The person who is continually lazy is you. There is the Irony.

 

[looney]

As many comments in those discussions about Islam are examples of islamophobia.

Again just to add balance .

There is no such thing, medical, as Islamaphobia or homophobia for that matter, its just a constructed term to smear opponents with along with many others. If anti-Semitism is the tip of the leftwing iceberg, this is what lies beneath.

Not suprised you dont get it.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Get David Miliband as leader, he will sort this nonsense out. Otherwise you're in the gutter looking at the stars

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Why is not liking Islam a phobia (islamophobia), similar to not liking spiders or ghosts. Whereas not liking Jews is an ism (anti semitism), like racism or sexism?

Probably because Islam is not a race whereas Semite usually (but not always) in this sense refers to a Jew.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would just like to point out that I think it is patently ridiculous that anyone could tarnish the Labour Party as anti-Semitic. It might fit certain people's agendas, but if you actually believe that thenyou are a fool. All parties have nut jobs. It's an unfortunate consequence of having a whole load of people under a broad belief.

I completely agree, especially the bit about certain people's agendas.

 

[BadFish]

Thanks for posting this, you have provided a blue print argument of what is wrong in these debates. If you care to quote a couple of these examples you will see a big difference.

when I have called someone on their anti-S bullshit I have given specific reasons why i consider it AS. Theresponce has usually been "You are wrong", this is not a reply but just a noise. They needed to post reasons why I was wrong to make it a reasoned debate rather than a noise making contest.

The person who is continually lazy is you. There is the Irony.

well i give you full marks for persistence Looney, You have once again shown yourself as a low quality troll, incapable of intelligent argument. But you still keep coming back for more

full marks for persistence, sadly no points for self awareness.

 

[looney]

well i give you full marks for persistence Looney, You have once again shown yourself as a low quality troll, incapable of intelligent argument. But you still keep coming back for more

full marks for persistence, sadly no points for self awareness.

So whos trolling? Thats a whiny response from you with no substance, as usual.The mistake you make is to think people are to stupid to see through your rubbish. Most do, I point out the flaws to the rest as you gathered, giving your various tactics, "Ignore", "Insult","Libel", "Bait and squeal to mods"and now just whiny snivelling..

 

[BadFish]

So whos trolling? Thats a whiny response from you with no substance, as usual.The mistake you make is to think people are to stupid to see through your rubbish. Most do, I point out the flaws to the rest as you gathered, giving your various tactics, "Ignore", "Insult","Libel", "Bait and squeal to mods"and now just whiny snivelling..

Like i say no points for self awareness. Have a look at the responses to your worthless bullshit on this thread and then have a think about who it is that people are starting to see through.

Anyway i am done feeding you. I am starting to feel sorry for you now. Any attention is good attention eh?

 

[Soulman]

It's taken a long time for people to see through Livingstone, meanwhile he has made loads of money for himself. Hopefully he will enjoy the fruits of his ill gotten gains and disappear into retirement.

 

[BadFish]

It's taken a long time for people to see through Livingstone, meanwhile he has made loads of money for himself. Hopefully he will enjoy the fruits of his ill gotten gains and disappear into retirement.

There seems to be a lot of hate for the bloke on here, what else has he done?

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

There seems to be a lot of hate for the bloke on here, what else has he done?

He had the temerity to be a genuinely successful left wing politician.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

It's taken a long time for people to see through Livingstone, meanwhile he has made loads of money for himself. Hopefully he will enjoy the fruits of his ill gotten gains and disappear into retirement.

He could always forge a career as a Kenneth Williams impersonator

 

[Soulman]

He had the temerity to be a genuinely successful left wing politician.

Pah, a true socialist eh........

Mr Livingstone, Labour's candidate for the London mayoralty, has condemned tax avoiders as "rich b*******" who should "not be allowed to vote".

However, he has faced accusations of hypocrisy after it was revealed that he has himself channelled his earnings through a personal company, Silveta Ltd, paying corporation tax at 20 or 21 per cent rather than income tax at up to 50 per cent.

Silveta's 2011 accounts, published on the Companies House website on Friday night, show that Mr Livingstone continued this practice last year.
According to the accounts, he invoiced a total of £238,646 for his services in the year to June 30 including speechmaking, radio and presenting for the Iranian regime's English-language channel, Press TV.
The money was paid to the company, saving Mr Livingstone up to £54,000 against the amount he would have had to pay if the earnings had been subject to income tax and National Insurance. Last year was the first of the 50 per cent income tax rate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...lled-238000-through-tax-avoidance-scheme.html

Ken Livingstone has gone on Russia Today to call for Cameron to be jailed over his taxes. That is the same Ken Livingstone who sheltered his earnings in a company so he could save £1,000-a-week in tax. Ken paid 21% corporation tax rate on £319,478 of earnings by invoicing to Silveta Ltd, instead of paying the 50% top rate of income tax. He also owned 99% of a similar company twice prosecuted for non-payment of taxes. Ken’s effective tax rate in 2012 was 14.5%. Today he laughably calls Cameron “the most hypocritical prime minister of my lifetime”…

When details of Ken Livingstone's tax arrangements first emerged, I wrote about my concerns on my blog. I said that "...for Ken Livingstone to throw around accusations of tax dodging one minute then rely on his accountants to minimise his own burden the next is clearly hypocritical."
Following further revelations, we have decided that it is only appropriate to report Mr Livingstone's tax irregularities to HMRC for them investigate formally. Hopefully this investigation will be swift, so voters in London's Mayoral election can know the full facts when they cast their ballot in May.
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/ta...n_livingstone_to_hmrc_over_tax_irregularities

And here is the most laughable comments
"Ken Livingstone today insisted he was simply clueless about his financial affairs — as he promised to publish his income every year to show he is not a tax-dodger.

In a bid to draw a line under the tax affair that has dogged his campaign to be Mayor of London, Labour’s candidate said he only hired an accountant because he “would have just screwed it up” himself.
Mr Livingstone has been accused of setting up a private company, Silveta Ltd, which allowed him to avoid paying at least £75,000 in tax. Today he claimed he was forced to employ the accountant following his defeat to Tory rival Boris Johnson in 2008 because he was touring the world advising mayors in South America, China and Africa — and could not manage all the different payments.
In addition, he said he does NOT know how much his wife Emma Beal earns from their joint company
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/ken-livingstone-the-truth-about-that-tax-affair-7660826.html

 

[BadFish]

Pah, a true socialist eh........

Mr Livingstone, Labour's candidate for the London mayoralty, has condemned tax avoiders as "rich b*******" who should "not be allowed to vote".

However, he has faced accusations of hypocrisy after it was revealed that he has himself channelled his earnings through a personal company, Silveta Ltd, paying corporation tax at 20 or 21 per cent rather than income tax at up to 50 per cent.

Silveta's 2011 accounts, published on the Companies House website on Friday night, show that Mr Livingstone continued this practice last year.
According to the accounts, he invoiced a total of £238,646 for his services in the year to June 30 including speechmaking, radio and presenting for the Iranian regime's English-language channel, Press TV.
The money was paid to the company, saving Mr Livingstone up to £54,000 against the amount he would have had to pay if the earnings had been subject to income tax and National Insurance. Last year was the first of the 50 per cent income tax rate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...lled-238000-through-tax-avoidance-scheme.html

Ken Livingstone has gone on Russia Today to call for Cameron to be jailed over his taxes. That is the same Ken Livingstone who sheltered his earnings in a company so he could save £1,000-a-week in tax. Ken paid 21% corporation tax rate on £319,478 of earnings by invoicing to Silveta Ltd, instead of paying the 50% top rate of income tax. He also owned 99% of a similar company twice prosecuted for non-payment of taxes. Ken’s effective tax rate in 2012 was 14.5%. Today he laughably calls Cameron “the most hypocritical prime minister of my lifetime”…

When details of Ken Livingstone's tax arrangements first emerged, I wrote about my concerns on my blog. I said that "...for Ken Livingstone to throw around accusations of tax dodging one minute then rely on his accountants to minimise his own burden the next is clearly hypocritical."
Following further revelations, we have decided that it is only appropriate to report Mr Livingstone's tax irregularities to HMRC for them investigate formally. Hopefully this investigation will be swift, so voters in London's Mayoral election can know the full facts when they cast their ballot in May.
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/ta...n_livingstone_to_hmrc_over_tax_irregularities

And here is the most laughable comments
"Ken Livingstone today insisted he was simply clueless about his financial affairs — as he promised to publish his income every year to show he is not a tax-dodger.

In a bid to draw a line under the tax affair that has dogged his campaign to be Mayor of London, Labour’s candidate said he only hired an accountant because he “would have just screwed it up” himself.
Mr Livingstone has been accused of setting up a private company, Silveta Ltd, which allowed him to avoid paying at least £75,000 in tax. Today he claimed he was forced to employ the accountant following his defeat to Tory rival Boris Johnson in 2008 because he was touring the world advising mayors in South America, China and Africa — and could not manage all the different payments.
In addition, he said he does NOT know how much his wife Emma Beal earns from their joint company
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/ken-livingstone-the-truth-about-that-tax-affair-7660826.html

Tax dodging is obviously not on and not to be condoned but this hardly "fruits of ill gotten gains". Fruits of ill kept gains maybe or fruits of ill disclosed gains. It may just be my interpretation but your post hinted at something far more sinister that tax dodging.