[Politics] Keir Starmer

[Sid and the Sharknados]

My daughter is choosing her GCSE options right now, and it seems to be exactly the same as state schools. Must have a language, must do science, maths, english etc.

I've done a (very) quick Google, they're not obliged to follow the curriculum, or the requirements such as teaching an hour of RE a week that state schools have to follow.

Types of school

Types of school and how they're run - community schools, academies, free schools, faith schools, state boarding schools

www.gov.uk

I gather most of them broadly have the same requirements for GCSE subjects just because it turns out that teaching children English, Maths and Science is a good idea.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

winners will be us, from all the extra teachers funded from the revenue raised of course. thats what it is intended to do after all.

You have kids in state school then.

Happy with it?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My daughter is choosing her GCSE options right now, and it seems to be exactly the same as state schools. Must have a language, must do science, maths, english etc.

What were you expecting? That she may stick two fingers up to maths, English and a science and, instead, do philosophy, interpretive dance, and begginers' bricklaying?

If you are paying fees for the school to just copy state schools, I'd demand my money back.

 

[hart's shirt]

Funnily enough, we had an email about some of the stuff they're doing last night. There are currently fourteen projects including working as classroom assistants at Downs View Special School, three projects at St. Marks Primary (including building a library), working with the Blind Veterans, supporting special needs kids at Chailey Heritage Foundation, musical foundation work at several old people's homes, Community cooking courses at various state schools, and the latest initiative is having 90 primary school kids a week from state schools coming in to Roedean for lessons with the Year 12 group.

But apart from that, what have the Roedeans ever done for us?

I'm with you, Tim. There's an extensive (and I would argue increasing) amount of service being provided by independent schools that should be rightly commended. Old school ties may still exist, but the days of ivory towers are long gone. There's a lot going on, even if people don't want to think there is because of ignorance or prejudice. And parents like you shouldn't feel the need to justify it to others.

I trained to teach in inner-city, inner-ring Birmingham in the 1990s (Saltley and the notorious Alum Rock Road) and was taxied to school because it was too dangerous to walk. Had to watch all the kids leave at the end of the day as there was the real chance of kidnap. One girl ended up being found by Interpol 4 months later in Pakistan. After finishing, I taught in rural agricultural Suffolk (Culford, Bury St Edmunds) and Kings Worcester, the former of which some of the boarders were RAF kids whose parents were stationed in Germany. Lived in the boarding houses and was a surrogate parent to around fifty 8-13 year olds for 3 years. You're always on duty.

I met great teachers in both state and independent sector. Their politics may have been radically different from hardened union left-wingers in the former to Countryside Alliance/Young Farmers tweed jacket with elbow patches types in the latter, but their sacrificial caring and concern for the kids was similar albeit expressed in different ways. It's not an either / or thing when it comes to being a good teacher. Each sector needs them in different ways.

Since I left those schools, I've done pro bono tutoring work for kids that couldn't get into schools, were bullied at school and dropped out, or whose parents had split or had lost their jobs. Equally, I've helped kids get into top fee-paying UK schools of which Eton was one. Kids are kids and should have every opportunity to succeed regardless of income bracket. I'd support higher taxes to support that. It's an investment in the nation's future. But that doesn't mean that parents with greater disposable income should be unfairly hindered from investing in their children's future. Parents of children in the independent sector already effectively pay twice for education - once in taxes and once in school fees. And in the Middle East at least where I've lived for 16 years, the UK independent school sector is still very much viewed as gold standard. It would be more than a shame if that reputation on the world stage were allowed to diminish because of ideology.

I've got equally the same amount of precisely no time for snobbery or inverse snobbery here when it comes to non-educationalists of right or left looking in with criticisms based on ignorance or politics. Support your local schools, regardless of sector, and by extension you'll be supporting the children that attend them. Join the PTA. Become a School Governor. Get involved. Volunteer. Don't sit on the sidelines sniping. And if people think they can do better, they can always put their proverbial money where their mouth is, train to be a teacher and change it from the inside.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

What were you expecting? That she may stick two fingers up to maths, English and a science and, instead, do philosophy, interpretive dance, and begginers' bricklaying?

If you are paying fees for the school to just copy state schools, I'd demand my money back.

Genuinely one of the weirdest posts I've seen on NSC. I have no idea what point you're making

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Genuinely one of the weirdest posts I've seen on NSC. I have no idea what point you're making

I thank you.

My comment was something to do with the national curriculum, and how it maps to obvious common sense, which is what I would expect a fee-paying school to map its curriculum to.

Daft to allow or facilitate pupils doing dickshite A levels. Innit.

And you post seemed to be a tad off-piste itself, if you don't mind my saying so.

 

[mwrpoole]

I think if a service is provided in this country, then VAT is chargeable regardless of where the person lives.

However, a lot of this thread is still missing the point. Schools' VAT exempt status is not because they are registered charities. Even registered charities have to charge VAT on sales, eg. the Injured Jockeys Fund is VAT registered because it has a commercial arm that makes profits for the charity and the government collects 20% of its VAT-registered sales.

The reason schools do not charge VAT is because the government determines that education is an exempt supply for VAT purposes. The same applies to profit making organisations, including probably a few schools, and certainly private tutors - they are not charities but they still don't charge VAT on their fees.

Don’t forget universities. VAT on tuition fees would go down well!

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Don’t forget universities. VAT on tuition fees would go down well!

Would also be completely meaningless, given hardly anybody on the current system will ever finish paying it off as it is.
I was talking to the new grad in my office the other day, and saw his predicted repayment schedule.
With the interest being added on, he'll be considerably further from paying it off when it's written off in 30years than he is now.

 

[cloud]

winners will be us, from all the extra teachers funded from the revenue raised of course. thats what it is intended to do after all.

We all know the extra revenue won't go toward extra teachers though. It will end up being mis-spent just like everything else.

 

[cloud]

Would also be completely meaningless, given hardly anybody on the current system will ever finish paying it off as it is.
I was talking to the new grad in my office the other day, and saw his predicted repayment schedule.
With the interest being added on, he'll be considerably further from paying it off when it's written off in 30years than he is now.

With some subjects, such as veterinary science, the training takes so long that you never pay off the loan.

Adding VAT to university education will just increase the gap between rich and poor, as wealthy parents will pay the fees in cash, and those with poorer parents end up with an even larger loan to pay off.

 

[KZNSeagull]

With some subjects, such as veterinary science, the training takes so long that you never pay off the loan.

Adding VAT to university education will just increase the gap between rich and poor, as wealthy parents will pay the fees in cash, and those with poorer parents end up with an even larger loan to pay off.

That would actually help the tax payer - if wealthy people are going to pay off student loans when their child may not earn enough to pay it off, then I'm all for it. In reality though and unfortunately, wealthy people stay wealthy by not paying for things unnecessarily.

 

[Wokeworrier]

We all know the extra revenue won't go toward extra teachers though. It will end up being mis-spent just like everything else.

Very true. This policy is all about Starmer throwing a bit of Red meat to placate the disgruntled Corbynista/class war elements in the Labour party who all foolishly thought, they were backing continuity Corbyn when they supported Starmer's leadership bid.

The real winners will be the kids of the mega wealthy in the UK, rich oligarchs, Sheiks, numerous despotic leaders around the world as even more of their offspring replace the children/funds from many aspirational middle income UK citizens ...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Would also be completely meaningless, given hardly anybody on the current system will ever finish paying it off as it is.
I was talking to the new grad in my office the other day, and saw his predicted repayment schedule.
With the interest being added on, he'll be considerably further from paying it off when it's written off in 30years than he is now.

A point made on many occasions by different people rebutting the criticism that the uni fees rubric with bankrupt the graduates. The biggest threat is that too few former students will pay back a proportion of the loan sufficient to make the financial model work - for the unis and HMG.

 

[rogersix]

Very true. This policy is all about Starmer throwing a bit of Red meat to placate the disgruntled Corbynista/class war elements in the Labour party who all foolishly thought, they were backing continuity Corbyn when they supported Starmer's leadership bid.

The real winners will be the kids of the mega wealthy in the UK, rich oligarchs, Sheiks, numerous despotic leaders around the world as even more of their offspring replace the children/funds from many aspirational middle income UK citizens ...

If only there was a party committed to fiscal probity, by the by, who do you vote for wokey?

 

[WATFORD zero]

If only there was a party committed to fiscal probity, by the by, who do you vote for wokey?

I would guess whoever his dad tells him to, so that would be Truss

What would be the point of employing him otherwise

 

[BenGarfield]

We all know the extra revenue won't go toward extra teachers though. It will end up being mis-spent just like everything else.

The extra tax revenue doesn`t go torward anything. It's destroyed once it is returned to the exchequer. If you dont believe me, read "The "Self Financing State" a working paper written August 2022 by University College London`s Institiute for Innovation and Public Purpose. If you know different, I`m sure the authors Andrew Berkley, Richard Tye, and Neil Wilson et al. would love to know the error of their ways.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The extra tax revenue doesn`t go torward anything. It's destroyed once it is returned to the exchequer. If you dont believe me, read "The "Self Financing State" a working paper written August 2022 by University College London`s Institiute for Innovation and Public Purpose. If you know different, I`m sure the authors Andrew Berkley, Richard Tye, and Neil Wilson et al. would love to know the error of their ways.

You should have mentioned it before. I really can't understand why all the political parties spend so much time in their manifestos and campaigns trying to get tax revenue when it's destroyed as soon as they get it

Maybe Andrew Berkley, Richard Tye, and Neil Wilson et al could explain to them the error of their ways or maybe set up an alternative party and Government based on their principles and understanding

 

[Wokeworrier]

If only there was a party committed to fiscal probity, by the by, who do you vote for wokey?

Any supposed economic credibility for the Tories has evaporated after the disastrous Truss experiment, pretending we have a magic money tree while Labour always promise to spend/borrow even more so fiscal probity is off the agenda at the moment.

I have voted for a range of political parties and sometimes haven't bothered out of disgust at the appalling choices ... you?

 

[dazzer6666]

Funnily enough, we had an email about some of the stuff they're doing last night. There are currently fourteen projects including working as classroom assistants at Downs View Special School, three projects at St. Marks Primary (including building a library), working with the Blind Veterans, supporting special needs kids at Chailey Heritage Foundation, musical foundation work at several old people's homes, Community cooking courses at various state schools, and the latest initiative is having 90 primary school kids a week from state schools coming in to Roedean for lessons with the Year 12 group.

I’m on the trustee board at Chailey, the Roedean girls (A level students) are on a 16 week programme with weekly sessions….been fantastic so far by all accounts.

Students from Roedean School Volunteer with Chailey Heritage

A group of sixth-form students from Roedean School in East Sussex joined us as part of their Community Action Programme on Wednesday 28th September.

www.chf.org.uk

 

[BenGarfield]

If only there was a party committed to fiscal probity, by the by, who do you vote for wokey?

Whjat do you mean by "fiscal probity"?