[Sussex] Katie Hopkins in Lewes

[sussex_guy2k2]

She doesn't "speak her mind." She's a troll. She's walking clickbait and best ignored.

Unless someone knocks her out. Then instead of ignoring her, we can laugh at her which seems much more enjoyable and less laborsome.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, it's hate speech but I still don't know what makes it fascist. Marx and Engels used the same sort of language to describe the social underclass and why they need to be either re-educated or removed ('parasite class') and I've often heard people describe the Royal Family as leeches. John McDonnell has spoken of lynching Tories and wanting to assassinate Thatcher. Are these also fascist statements?

Not this again. I suspect you're wrong about Marx and Engels, but feel free to find numerous quotations supporting the position you're claiming they've made when discussing the lumpenproletariat.
As regards McDonnell, he ought to know better but the difference is that his statements aren't dehumanising those that he's targeting, whereas Hopkins does do that, and repeatedly, which is why I'm quite happy to refer to her as a fascist.

 

[soistes]

Yes, it's hate speech but I still don't know what makes it fascist. Marx and Engels used the same sort of language to describe the social underclass and why they need to be either re-educated or removed ('parasite class') and I've often heard people describe the Royal Family as leeches. John McDonnell has spoken of lynching Tories and wanting to assassinate Thatcher. Are these also fascist statements?

You are, of course, correct that saying these things doesn't make her a fascist in the strict sense of the word, e.g. the Cambridge Dictionary defines fascism as "a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed".

However, there is also a looser, more colloquial modern use of the term, as noted by Wikipedia: "... the term is instead now usually used pejoratively by political opponents. The descriptions neo-fascist or post-fascist are sometimes applied more formally to describe parties of the far-right with ideologies similar to, or rooted in, 20th century fascist movements."

So in this latter sense, much of what Hopkins spouts is of a kind with "far right parties with ideologies similar to ... etc etc", so I think that's the sense in which she's often described as fascist. It's an unhelpful use of a term which has a precise, clear meaning in its own right, but we pretty much know what they mean.

None of this is a reason to ban her from speaking though, and even if she were a fascist (in the original sense) rather than just a right-wing self-publicist with a loud mouth, I don't think she should be prevented from expressing her views, and I say this as someone from very much the opposite end of the political spectrum. Once the principle of banning someone for offensive views or extreme political views is conceded, then the risk is that the same principle can be extended or used (abused) by those in power against any views they happen to regard as extreme or offensive (potentially including my own, so I don't like the idea...)

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I am getting worried about our country , there is no longer free speech , you can’t say what you reall y think , you are told what to think , if you do a bunch of left wing protesters turn up , rather than break up the protest the police will cancel the event , as it is easier for them .
This country will soon be like an One party state ,
As for the police any smell of trouble , either the event is banned , or pubs shut , they are only interested in speeding fines

There’s what you say and how you say it.

 

[Buzzer]

Not this again. I suspect you're wrong about Marx and Engels, but feel free to find numerous quotations supporting the position you're claiming they've made when discussing the lumpenproletariat.
As regards McDonnell, he ought to know better but the difference is that his statements aren't dehumanising those that he's targeting, whereas Hopkins does do that, and repeatedly, which is why I'm quite happy to refer to her as a fascist.

Hang on. I'm genuinely not trying to wind you up. I'm being sincere when I ask. The only reason I quoted Marx and McDonnell is because it's the opposite to what we understand as fascism and so if they say something that's sort of similar then that's why I question if it's fascist. And I'm not trying to downplay any of her comments. They're disgusting and indefensible, I'm with you completely on that.

To me, fascism is a kind of state socialism, deeply nationalistic, interested in protecting those at the top, heavy influence on power by the military and so on. The point I'm making (albeit badly) is that Katie Holmes comments don't appear, to me at least, to be fascist even though she speaks in favour of one or two of the things that might describe fascism. Especially if those things are also traits of other ideologies.

 

[Brovion]

Yeah , that's the same isn't it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why is is different? And don't say 'because they're talking about different things'.

 

[The Clamp]

Aside from her extreme right wing views (designed exclusively to rile people) the main reason I don't like her is she is just downright rude and unpleasant to people. Not how decent people behave and certainly not how decent people are bought up. As Thunderbolt suggested, she should be given no attention whatsoever.

 

[The Clamp]

Godwin's Law in thirteen posts. Impressive.

I think she's a hateful woman but she, as well as everyone else, should be afforded the opportunity to speak her mind.

I'm one of those liberal lefty snowflake types but it does irk me when people on this side of the fence think it's better to shut people up instead of engaging them in debate.

She's not interested in intelligent debate and to claim so is mainly an excuse to bash the left. She want to enrage people, rile folk, spew bile. She should be denied a platform to spread her hate speak (which is most certainly is) and should be ignored until she's a distant horse faced silhouette in the minds of only the most fervent Daily Mail "readers".


In the good old days she'd have had a metal clamp strapped round her pie-hole and made to walk the village in shame for being a tittle tattle. These days, I'll settle for a total absence of her witterings.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Aside from her extreme right wing views (designed exclusively to rile people) the main reason I don't like her is she is just downright rude and unpleasant to people. Not how decent people behave and certainly not how decent people are bought up. As Thunderbolt suggested, she should be given no attention whatsoever.

And neither should those extreme left wing protesters either, deal?

 

[The Clamp]

And neither should those extreme left wing protesters either, deal?

Just give them nought to protest about. Seems simple. For the record, I find extreme left wing protesters like this lot just as ignorant as I find extreme right wingers like you.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Just give them nought to protest about. Seems simple. For the record, I find extreme left wing protesters like this lot just as ignorant as I find extreme right wingers like you.

Trying to have a sensible conversation, and you call me ignorant, and then people wonder why there such a divide in this country. I'm off.

 

[The Clamp]

Trying to have a sensible conversation, and you call me ignorant, and then people wonder why there such a divide in this country. I'm off.

You're just leftie bashing and you know it. You don't have a sensible conversation in you.

:

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You're just leftie bashing and you know it. You don't have a sensible conversation in you.

:

I'm flouncing of this thread and any other political ones yes. There is no point nobody can agree, in the end it is a waste of time and energy.

 

[alfredmizen]

She doesn't "speak her mind." She's a troll. She's walking clickbait and best ignored.

She doesnt speak YOUR mind , hence the troll label.

 

[alfredmizen]

This. Would have been lovely if she had been allowed to speak to rows of empty chairs.

but she wouldnt have , people had bought tickets .

 

[Hastings gull]

Some people have a messed up view of 'freedom of speech', Katie Hopkins peddles hate and should not have a platform to do so. Well done the good people of Lewes.

They do indeed!

 

[The Merry Prankster]

And neither should those extreme left wing protesters either, deal?

Pretty telling that you think people have to be extreme left wing to object to KH. My Mum objects to her and she’s voted Tory and read the Express all her life.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

Has left her column on the MailOnline by mutual consent..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42141325

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Pretty telling that you think people have to be extreme left wing to object to KH. My Mum objects to her and she’s voted Tory and read the Express all her life.

I've never voted Tory in my life and despise Ms Hopkins' views. But I still can't see that it's any reason to prevent her from speaking. Evil things grow in the dark. Shine a light. Let her show herself for what she is.

 

[Hastings gull]

Pretty telling that you think people have to be extreme left wing to object to KH. My Mum objects to her and she’s voted Tory and read the Express all her life.

Ok fair enough if that is your mum's view, and I suspect that she would not be the only Tory supporter to subscribe to that view. However, what bashilsdir was getting at is that this whole stop hate campaign is orchestrated by left wing ideologues, determined to shout down and stop views contrary to those they hold. If Katie Hopkins is barred from speaking then who comes next. I have seen folk on here suggest that Farage is also guilty of hate, and so he should be banned, and then what next, as they become ever more emboldened whilst they look for the next victim.