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[Politics] Just why do we vote for them ?



JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
6,229
Seaford
Every now and again the system works well, we had President Kennedy, we had Nelson Mandela, we have Jacinda Ardern. Kennedy managed to step back from global nuclear war over the Cuba crisis, would Trump ? Mandela's election resulted in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission which prevented a possible bloodbath of revenge by those treated shamefully by apartheid. Jacinda Ardern has shown amazing leadership in her handling of the New Zealand Mosque attacks and her handling of Covid-19.

Don't discard democracy if it does not work all the time, it's still the best system we have currently, although you are welcome and indeed, encouraged to make a better system ... that's democracy.

Democracy works, it's the people that are broken
 




keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,972
Those who failed to provide a credible alternative need to take a even harder look at themselves. .
Tory voters, like their politicians ,speak about responsibility but refuse to take any.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,183
Gloucester
Tory voters, like their politicians ,speak about responsibility but refuse to take any.

I'm sure they do.. ...........What's that got to do with the fact that those who failed to provide a credible alternative need to take a even harder look at themselves? Democracy is often a case of people having to vote for the least bad alternative and they can't be criticised for doing that, whether you like it or not.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,015
Remember a lot of us effectively have no vote, we live in ‘safe seats’ which will vote in a labour/conservative candidate no matter how bad ‘ extreme they are. As Horsham is about as safe as it comes my vote means nothing. So every 5 years I pointlessly go to my local school and make an x. We really do need a none of the above box.

thats democracy for you, majority getting their way
 


Leekbrookgull

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2005
16,384
Leek
Every now and again the system works well, we had President Kennedy, we had Nelson Mandela, we have Jacinda Ardern. Kennedy managed to step back from global nuclear war over the Cuba crisis, would Trump ? Mandela's election resulted in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission which prevented a possible bloodbath of revenge by those treated shamefully by apartheid. Jacinda Ardern has shown amazing leadership in her handling of the New Zealand Mosque attacks and her handling of Covid-19.

Don't discard democracy if it does not work all the time, it's still the best system we have currently, although you are welcome and indeed, encouraged to make a better system ... that's democracy.

Some of the names that you have mentioned have been a cut above the rest. He are a few in my lifetime past and present as you say JFK/NM how about Reagan ? Closer to home we had Benn,Ashdown,Kennedy,Powell,David Owen,John Hume some would say Paisley Snr and there are others. Sure you might not like their brand of politics but you might actually go to hear what they had to say at a public meeting ? There is plenty on Youtube of political debate when it was a debate and not today's i can shout louder than you and that's for me really frightening the simple ability to sit and discuss matters rationally. We saw all that at Westminster over Brexit insult after insult,in your face abuse.
 






Super Steve Earle

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
8,928
North of Brighton
Some of the names that you have mentioned have been a cut above the rest. He are a few in my lifetime past and present as you say JFK/NM how about Reagan ? Closer to home we had Benn,Ashdown,Kennedy,Powell,David Owen,John Hume some would say Paisley Snr and there are others. Sure you might not like their brand of politics but you might actually go to hear what they had to say at a public meeting ? There is plenty on Youtube of political debate when it was a debate and not today's i can shout louder than you and that's for me really frightening the simple ability to sit and discuss matters rationally. We saw all that at Westminster over Brexit insult after insult,in your face abuse.
Funny you mention Paisley in the context of not being I can shout louder than you. His style of politics was surely based around bullying, rebel rousing and shouting the loudest. Unless Paisley Snr was his dad, in which case I apologise.:)
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,767
I'm sure they do.. ...........What's that got to do with the fact that those who failed to provide a credible alternative need to take a even harder look at themselves? Democracy is often a case of people having to vote for the least bad alternative and they can't be criticised for doing that, whether you like it or not.

Of course it's not down to you to take responsibility for the way you voted, you were forced, you had no choice, because somebody else didn't do what you wanted to 'provide you with a credible alternative'. It's definitely their fault that you did what you did in our two party state :lolol:
 
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WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,767
I complain as much as I want to, without the "right" to do so, and without "responsibilites".

But can you see that complaining about things but not being prepared to put in the slightest effort to do something about them just comes across as pathetic and whiney ?

I would have thought that listening to someone constantly moaning about things they are not prepared to do anything about would simply be depressing :shrug:
 


Leekbrookgull

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2005
16,384
Leek
Funny you mention Paisley in the context of not being I can shout louder than you. His style of politics was surely based around bullying, rebel rousing and shouting the loudest. Unless Paisley Snr was his dad, in which case I apologise.:)

Paisley and his open air meetings and we have all seen the TV footage of rant and rave and he could shout,but he could also talk quietly along with many others at that time,which is so unlike today. Yet i am probably wrong. :dunce:
 






Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
But can you see that complaining about things but not being prepared to put in the slightest effort to do something about them just comes across as pathetic and whiney ?

I would have thought that listening to someone constantly moaning about things they are not prepared to do anything about would simply be depressing :shrug:

Voting for some dude to come and take care of the problems is lazier than not doing the slightest effort.

There are other things to do to improve the world.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,183
Gloucester
Of course it's not down to you to take responsibility for the way you voted, you were forced, you had no choice.
Bollocks, what a stupid thing to say. I had the choice of voting for the least bad option, for even worse options, not voting at all or spoiling my ballot paper. I then looked at the options and made my choice freely and responsibly. It is a great pity no-one came up with a better option for me to choose, but that is not my responsibility.
Any more than you were responsible for going to war in Iraq if you voted for New Labour, as I did.
 




WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,767
Bollocks, what a stupid thing to say. I had the choice of voting for the least bad option, for even worse options, not voting at all or spoiling my ballot paper. I then looked at the options and made my choice freely and responsibly. It is a great pity no-one came up with a better option for me to choose, but that is not my responsibility.
Any more than you were responsible for going to war in Iraq if you voted for New Labour, as I did.

I did vote 'New Labour' in 1997 (That was one of the times I voted Labour, and I've voted for other parties far more often but probably doesn't suit your presupposition), but by the time of the 2003 invasion, there had been another election and my vote had gone elsewhere. But I was part of that huge majority that got TB into power on and I take full responsibility for what that Government did as I voted for them.

But possibly that's where we are different, I always take full responsibility for what I do, and maybe that's why we don't seem to agree :shrug:
 


GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,183
Gloucester
I did vote 'New Labour' in 1997 (That was one of the times I voted Labour, and I've voted for other parties far more often but probably doesn't suit your presupposition), but by the time of the 2003 invasion, there had been another election and my vote had gone elsewhere. But I was part of that huge majority TB got into power on and I take full responsibility for what that Government did as I voted for them.

Maybe that's where we are different and why we don't seem to agree :shrug:

No, people who voted Labour can not be held responsible for the Gulf War!
 




WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,767
Voting for some dude to come and take care of the problems is lazier than not doing the slightest effort.

There are other things to do to improve the world.

So what is it that you do, that has far more effect and makes far more difference than using your vote ? (I'm really not picking on you, we were all teenagers once, and I do like your football posts :wink:) Sorry, had something else come up :bigwave:
 






Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,862
Hookwood - Nr Horley
“Just why do we vote for them?”

I think the answer to that is demonstrated admirably by the replies in this thread.

The vast majority of voters don’t make their selection according to the merits of the candidates but by the party the candidates belong to. If ballot papers only had the name of the candidate on them with no mention of the party they belonged to I think we would see some rather interesting results.

The whole electoral system is designed to facilitate a continuing majority by one of the major parties. As is even more starkly apparent when looking at the USA, all this does is create divisions across the country.
 


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