[News] Just Stop Oil

[Hugo Rune]

In fairness I doubt they need such self publicity.

After all the only reason they are front and centre is because the government needed to over demonise them in order to cover up their own day to day clusterf**ks.

Yes - they are perfect for the government’s propaganda and culture wars unfortunately.

Rishi’s ‘5 pledges’ will soon be extended to 7 with ‘stop JSO’ and ‘stop women with penises’ added.

 

[jackalbion]

JSO protesting government at the ministry of energy this morning. This is exactly what people suggest they should be doing.

 

[jackalbion]

JSO protesting government at the ministry of energy this morning. This is exactly what people suggest they should be doing.

 

[A1X]

Just Stop...





Really old skateboarders

Another assault caught on camera which I expect the police won’t even bother following up on

 

[dsr-burnley]

The trouble is....the planet will not all pull together. The ' every little bit helps ' argument doesn't stand up, as the negative output of some will far outweigh the positive effort of others. Some will make far more sacrifice than others. Frustration at lack of action in certain countries will grow and it will only result in more protesting in places like the UK, where demonstrations are tolerated and civil unrest at disruption to everyday life will boil over.
We can work our socks off to lower our 2% contribution to global emissions but it will count for very little if similar effort is not put in elsewhere. Are people really going to stop using aircraft ( massive polluters ) Are we going to ban the use of giant cargo ships to transport our goods around the world ( even more massive polluters ) Are offices, homes and cars going to stop using air conditioning. Are we stopping to consider that the use of electric vehicles in the commercial world will not only slow down the transportation of goods and services around the world ( battery life/recharging etc ) but will also increase prices at the same time ( drivers hours etc )
Will people make these sacrifices? I still see well known climate activists flying all over the world, increasing carbon emissions.

Of course the planet won't pull together. We are a very rich country, and we can't expect the poorer countries to reduce their lifestyle until our lifestyle is below theirs. And we won't agree to live in poverty for a still-nebulous benefit.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Just Stop...





Really old skateboarders

With no wheels.

 

[pb21]

Of course the planet won't pull together. We are a very rich country, and we can't expect the poorer countries to reduce their lifestyle until our lifestyle is below theirs. And we won't agree to live in poverty for a still-nebulous benefit.

What do you suggest we do then?

If people wont change their behaviour, either in richer or poorer countries, then the effects of climate change are coming.

What do you think we should be doing, if anything, in advance?

 

[chickens]

The trouble is....the planet will not all pull together. The ' every little bit helps ' argument doesn't stand up, as the negative output of some will far outweigh the positive effort of others. Some will make far more sacrifice than others. Frustration at lack of action in certain countries will grow and it will only result in more protesting in places like the UK, where demonstrations are tolerated and civil unrest at disruption to everyday life will boil over.
We can work our socks off to lower our 2% contribution to global emissions but it will count for very little if similar effort is not put in elsewhere. Are people really going to stop using aircraft ( massive polluters ) Are we going to ban the use of giant cargo ships to transport our goods around the world ( even more massive polluters ) Are offices, homes and cars going to stop using air conditioning. Are we stopping to consider that the use of electric vehicles in the commercial world will not only slow down the transportation of goods and services around the world ( battery life/recharging etc ) but will also increase prices at the same time ( drivers hours etc )
Will people make these sacrifices? I still see well known climate activists flying all over the world, increasing carbon emissions.

I think with aircraft and shipping we’re at the mercy of the manufacturers who create propulsion systems for these vehicles. A global scheme similar to the Euro scheme for cars would be in order, getting older, more polluting planes/ships out of our skies and oceans.

I hear what you say regarding individual effort being negated by others inaction (or even deliberate reaction against) but we can’t allow ourselves to be discouraged by stupidity, and it is stupidity to make massive areas of our single habitable planet unsuitable for habitation, at least without massive amounts of energy being used to pump in water/provide A/C/putting out wildfires with collateral loss of life and environmental damage.

The hyper-individualism that has enabled consumerism and as a side-effect given birth to libertarianism and other crank pseudo-philosophies is literally a dead end. If we don’t start working together we significantly reduce our chances of survival.

We don’t have to agree with each other on every point, but this really isn’t something where we should be dicking about posturing.

Human ingenuity will be able to devise “sticking plaster” fixes for some of us, but it’s unspeakably arrogant of us to be a single planet species and not take the actions that would maintain our own home.

 

[dsr-burnley]

What do you suggest we do then?

If people wont change their behaviour, either in richer or poorer countries, then the effects of climate change are coming.

What do you think we should be doing, if anything, in advance?

I have no idea what could be done to make people use less power. The one practical thing that we could do is give vast subsidies to third world countries to build wind and solar power plants, but even that is politically fraught (eg. China).

But imagine us as the millionaire with the 100 room mansion while his neighbours live in two-room huts. If the millionaire agrees to close 50 of his rooms and take one or two fewer holidays, it isn't going to persuade the poor neighbours to cut down on their fuel usage. Poorer countries will not give up the dash for growth, so all we can try to do is make their growth plan cheaper with renewables than with gas and coal.

 

[crodonilson]

I think JSO will end up killing someone deliberately or inadvertently through these protests. The disruption they are causing at sporting events for example have got them the column inches and room on the airwaves they want but now it's more of a surprise if these events pass without some form of protest so as it becomes the norm the less it is going to cause the debate and so they will need to up the ante and make their protests more inconvenient or more shocking.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I think JSO will end up killing someone deliberately or inadvertently through these protests. The disruption they are causing at sporting events for example have got them the column inches and room on the airwaves they want but now it's more of a surprise if these events pass without some form of protest so as it becomes the norm the less it is going to cause the debate and so they will need to up the ante and make their protests more inconvenient or more shocking.

Run me through how you think that might happen...

 

[Heart and Soul]

I think JSO will end up killing someone deliberately or inadvertently through these protests. The disruption they are causing at sporting events for example have got them the column inches and room on the airwaves they want but now it's more of a surprise if these events pass without some form of protest so as it becomes the norm the less it is going to cause the debate and so they will need to up the ante and make their protests more inconvenient or more shocking.

They really don't strike me as all that murderous.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think with aircraft and shipping we’re at the mercy of the manufacturers who create propulsion systems for these vehicles. A global scheme similar to the Euro scheme for cars would be in order, getting older, more polluting planes/ships out of our skies and oceans.

for aircraft we're at the mercy of physics and economics. batteries are heavy and unsuitable for aviation. solar is a too unreliable or need battery backups. either way its not going to be viable to fly as we do without hydrocarbon power, either continue as we are, use vegtable oils (not for food poor arts of the world), or stop using.

shipping might have some bright future with hydrogen, produced from renewables, otherwise batteries or other ideas dont scale because of the weight again. the tonnage of batteries means less cargo, means more expensive to ship. we have to recognise all known battery technologies are pathetically low in terms of energy density.

Energy density - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[worthingseagull123]

We will see more and more of this needless and unacceptable aggression if they continue to target the public.

Maybe it is time for them to have a rethink before someone gets seriously hurt.

 

[chickens]

for aircraft we're at the mercy of physics and economics. batteries are heavy and unsuitable for aviation. solar is a too unreliable or need battery backups. either way its not going to be viable to fly as we do without hydrocarbon power, either continue as we are, use vegtable oils (not for food poor arts of the world), or stop using.

shipping might have some bright future with hydrogen, produced from renewables, otherwise batteries or other ideas dont scale because of the weight again. the tonnage of batteries means less cargo, means more expensive to ship. we have to recognise all known battery technologies are pathetically low in terms of energy density.

Energy density - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Green hydrogen may provide a solution for aircraft.

Green energy tycoon to launch UK’s first electric airline

But Dale Vince’s Ecojet plane will run on kerosene-based fuel in 2024 to enable quick start to project

www.theguardian.com

 

[A1X]

We will see more and more of this needless and unacceptable aggression if they continue to target the public.

Maybe it is time for them to have a rethink before someone gets seriously hurt.

Or maybe the public can stop assaulting them?

 

[Heart and Soul]

We will see more and more of this needless and unacceptable aggression if they continue to target the public.

Maybe it is time for them to have a rethink before someone gets seriously hurt.

People attacked women who protested not being allowed to vote and homosexuals who protested against it being illegal, of course they'll also attack people who protest the (to some extent needless) destruction of our planet.
A lot of people don't like protests because they just don't give a f*** about anything except themselves.

 

[beorhthelm]

Green hydrogen may provide a solution for aircraft.

Green energy tycoon to launch UK’s first electric airline

But Dale Vince’s Ecojet plane will run on kerosene-based fuel in 2024 to enable quick start to project

www.theguardian.com

the cylinders required for compressed gas are heavy, less space for passengers, flying will become the preserve of the wealthy once again. its perfectly possible for many industries to decarbonise, if we accept the cost increases and implied restricted use that follows.

it's ironic Dale Vince is going to start a short haul airline, using conventional fuels at first, while funding Just Stop Oil.

 

[fly high]

I think with aircraft and shipping we’re at the mercy of the manufacturers who create propulsion systems for these vehicles. A global scheme similar to the Euro scheme for cars would be in order, getting older, more polluting planes/ships out of our skies and oceans.

I hear what you say regarding individual effort being negated by others inaction (or even deliberate reaction against) but we can’t allow ourselves to be discouraged by stupidity, and it is stupidity to make massive areas of our single habitable planet unsuitable for habitation, at least without massive amounts of energy being used to pump in water/provide A/C/putting out wildfires with collateral loss of life and environmental damage.

The hyper-individualism that has enabled consumerism and as a side-effect given birth to libertarianism and other crank pseudo-philosophies is literally a dead end. If we don’t start working together we significantly reduce our chances of survival.

We don’t have to agree with each other on every point, but this really isn’t something where we should be dicking about posturing.

Human ingenuity will be able to devise “sticking plaster” fixes for some of us, but it’s unspeakably arrogant of us to be a single planet species and not take the actions that would maintain our own home.

Gatwick submits plans for second runway to double passenger numbers

Airport says runway will generate £1bn for region but campaigners argue it will worsen pollution and emissions

www.theguardian.com

It's not just the aircraft manufactures it's also the people who fly off all over the place for their must have foreign holidays, some several times a year. Shouldn't JSO be targeting the likes of Gatwick who want to have 2 operation run ways. They boast that by putting their so call emergency runway into daily use there will be an increase of 100,000 flights a year. What about all the extra pollution, not just from flights but people traveling to & from the airport. What about all the extra noise pollution for people living on the direct flight path & surrounding towns & villages on the holding pattern routes, there is no respite, it's 24/7? It will be allowed because of the claimed extra jobs created & £1B extra in to the local economy. It seems places like Eastbourne & probably Brighton fully support it as they think they will benefit financially.

It's not totally straightforward, tourists visiting countries bring in wealth, without them places would get poorer so that creates it's own problems.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Or maybe the public can stop assaulting them?

They could, but I suspect they wont.

I fear we’ll see worse than this in the near future if they continue to target the public.