just a reminder

[The Wookiee]

There is a great deal of difference between voicing an opinion against them and locking people up /deporting people based on suspicion and association.

If it makes you feel better I will public state for the record that I am against extremism, hatred and violence in all its forms and would like to find solutions to make it stop.

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There should be tighter laws against downloading extremist material from the internet, the same consequences as anyone downloading child abuse stuff from the internet. Anybody who does download stuff that involves them in extremism should face imprisonment or deportation!

Those on watchlists are on watchlists for a reason just the same as suspected paedophiles are on watchlists .

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

FFS this is national security we are talking about !! If you are a suspected terrorist then you should expect to be SUSPECTED!I they are suspects for a reason, downloading online material, links to other convicted terrorists etc !!

Are you really saying they should be convicted by a court first ?

corrected for you, and Yes obviously.

 

[The Wookiee]

corrected for you, and Yes obviously.

So let’s say some nutter drives a van into your children or blows a bomb up and kills your children at a pop concert and you then found out that the bomber/killer was on a suspect list but has never been convicted of anything, how would you feel about that ?

 

[Megazone]

So let’s say some nutter drives a van into your children or blows a bomb up and kills your children at a pop concert and you then found out that the bomber/killer was on a suspect list but has never been convicted of anything, how would you feel about that ?

Was the Manchester bomber who was at that childrens pop concert on the suspect list?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So let’s say some nutter drives a van into your children or blows a bomb up and kills your children at a pop concert and you then found out that the bomber/killer was on a suspect list but has never been convicted of anything, how would you feel about that ?

All depends what you mean by a suspect list.

Is there a definition?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There should be tighter laws against downloading extremist material from the internet, the same consequences as anyone downloading child abuse stuff from the internet. Anybody who does download stuff that involves them in extremism should face imprisonment or deportation!

Those on watchlists are on watchlists for a reason just the same as suspected paedophiles are on watchlists .

It would be much simpler to arrest and kill all Muslims (and anyone else you fancy). It would be the safest option.

So where do you draw the line?

 

[The Wookiee]

It would be much simpler to arrest and kill all Muslims (and anyone else you fancy). It would be the safest option.

So where do you draw the line?

What have the mainstream Muslim population in the uk got to do with it ?

We are talking about a minority of Muslims that have been radicalised and are a threat to our country!

 

[The Wookiee]

Mega zone, Easy 10, Harry Wilson’s Tackle, Bad Fish,how did you all feel after the Westminster Bridge attack, the Borough Market attack, the Manchester arena attack, what were your thoughts ?

Apart from sorrow for the victims and their families.Did you feel any anger, rage and fear ?

Would be interested to hear what you thoughts were

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What have the mainstream Muslim population in the uk got to do with it ?

We are talking about a minority of Muslims that have been radicalised and are a threat to our country!

Yes but how do you know who is a suspect? And what makes a suspect guilty? That was my point. It seems that you imagine suspects go around with 'suspect/guilty' tattood on their heads, and by gross negligence we let them roam free. What is the nature of evidence? It isn't simple.....

My solution was not facetious. Risk benefit analysis. What is the risk and what is the benefit? Push come to shove, many of us would kill everyone to save something (their own kid for example). What price liberty and freedom of choice, association, viewpoint?

Lif is not a simple homespun framework, easily elaborated by footy lads etc.

 

[BadFish]

There should be tighter laws against downloading extremist material from the internet, the same consequences as anyone downloading child abuse stuff from the internet. Anybody who does download stuff that involves them in extremism should face imprisonment or deportation!

Currently under section 58 the law states

Collection of information.

(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he collects or makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or
(b)he possesses a document or record containing information of that kind.
(2)In this section “record” includes a photographic or electronic record.
(3)It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had a reasonable excuse for his action or possession.
(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
(a)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years, to a fine or to both, or
(b)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/58

What changes are you proposing to this law?

Those on watchlists are on watchlists for a reason just the same as suspected paedophiles are on watchlists .

Neil Shortland is the program manager at the University of Massachusetts Centre for Terrorism and Security Studies, and previously worked on counter-terrorism within the UK Ministry of Defence. He described the watchlist as "The idea of a watchlist is to identify people who are vulnerable to becoming involved in terrorism and to assist in prioritising where finite police resources should be focused."
https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/ywzd8k/how-the-terror-watchlist-actually-works

Is this consistent with your understanding of the watchlist because i find it hard to beleive that based on this, someone would think it acceptable to prosecute or deport based on this criteria.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

We're fighting amongst ourselves, they're winning

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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Mega zone, Easy 10, Harry Wilson’s Tackle, Bad Fish,how did you all feel after the Westminster Bridge attack, the Borough Market attack, the Manchester arena attack, what were your thoughts ?

Apart from sorrow for the victims and their families.Did you feel any anger, rage and fear ?

Would be interested to hear what you thoughts were

Anger, certainly. Rage? Same as anger surely? Fear? Certainly not. And I work between St Thomas' and Guy's.

Do I want the rule of law suspended as a consquence? Certainly not.

Do I sympathize with your anger and frustration? Certainly.

So what do we do?

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Notice the soldier that said "I don't care if it alienates people" @Gem

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[The Wookiee]

Yes but how do you know who is a suspect? And what makes a suspect guilty? That was my point. It seems that you imagine suspects go around with 'suspect/guilty' tattood on their heads, and by gross negligence we let them roam free. What is the nature of evidence? It isn't simple.....

My solution was not facetious. Risk benefit analysis. What is the risk and what is the benefit? Push come to shove, many of us would kill everyone to save something (their own kid for example). What price liberty and freedom of choice, association, viewpoint?

Lif is not a simple homespun framework, easily elaborated by footy lads etc.

I don’t make the rules, but there are 3500 living in the uk who are on a watchlist.

 

[BadFish]

Mega zone, Easy 10, Harry Wilson’s Tackle, Bad Fish,how did you all feel after the Westminster Bridge attack, the Borough Market attack, the Manchester arena attack, what were your thoughts ?

Apart from sorrow for the victims and their families.Did you feel any anger, rage and fear ?

Would be interested to hear what you thoughts were

A ridiculous question. Of course I felt all those things.

But the question IMHO is: "Do you want to base your response to those attacks on those emotions?"

Personally, I would rather base my response in considered reason, Calm understanding and logic.

In my life I usually evoke the 24 hour rule to ensure that negative emotions are not playing to bigger part in my decision making. When i have failed to evoke this rule i have made extremely poor decisions that I have later regretted. I think the same logic should be followed in these cases too.

 

[Mackenzie]

Football lads are grate
ISIS are not
Lets bulldoze the mosqus
Before we get shot

regards
DR

 

[The Wookiee]

A ridiculous question. Of course I felt all those things.

But the question IMHO is: "Do you want to base your response to those attacks on those emotions?"

Personally, I would rather base my response in considered reason, Calm understanding and logic.

In my life I usually evoke the 24 hour rule to ensure that negative emotions are not playing to bigger part in my decision making. When i have failed to evoke this rule i have made extremely poor decisions that I have later regretted. I think the same logic should be followed in these cases too.

My emotions are that this country is clearly under attack, that means me, you and our families are at risk.

I don’t get why you doubters can’t see this ?

People have marched to raise this awareness because there are far too many people, a lot on this thread, that don’t seem to be taking this threat seriously!

 

[BadFish]

My emotions are that this country is clearly under attack, that means me, you and our families are at risk.

I don’t get why you doubters can’t see this ?

People have marched to raise this awareness because there are far too many people, a lot on this thread, that don’t seem to be taking this threat seriously!

Everybody is aware of it and everybody is taking it seriously. The difference is how people think it should be dealt with.

To me it is interesting that of my two posts in response to yours. You have chosen to respond to the one about emotion response, and you have chosen to respond with more emotive language. You have so far declined to respond the the one written first which outlines the current UK laws and asks for your considered opinion of the processes we have in place.

Like I said in my post I don't believe that emotion and hysteria are the best tools to deal with this problem (once again i feel the need to add that i do understand that this threat exists and that it need to be dealt with - I would add to this the caveat that this is one threat among many that we need to deal with

...... and as a point of order "this country is under attack" is not an emotion.

 

[Eeyore]

FFS this is national security we are talking about !! If you are a suspected terrorist then you should expect to be punished !I they are suspects for a reason, downloading online material, links to other convicted terrorists etc !!

Are you really saying they should be convicted by a court first ?

Should we 'punish' people who are 'suspected' of things ?

We arrest people if they are suspected of law breaking. If there is no actual evidence we don't. You want to change that ?

Our laws are already pushing the boundaries.

 

[The Wookiee]

Should we 'punish' people who are 'suspected' of things ?

We arrest people if they are suspected of law breaking. If there is no actual evidence we don't. You want to change that ?

Our laws are already pushing the boundaries.

With terrorism YES !!!!