Junker and the EU

[Herr Tubthumper]

Quite an inept performance from Cameron. If he wanted a different leader then he should have gone out there and formed the alliances and friendships which would have delivered his man. Having one single person out of 26 side with you is pretty damning.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It doesn't make sense that across Europe people voted inthe European elections to show their dissatisfaction with the Europe status quo so the leaders elect a bloke likely to speed up the course towards federation, not critically reform it. I sense certain countries may have bottled it and stuck with the Germans.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

It doesn't make sense that across Europe people voted inthe European elections to show their dissatisfaction with the Europe status quo so the leaders elect a bloke likely to speed up the course towards federation, not critically reform it. I sense certain countries may have bottled it and stuck with the Germans.

This concern can be allayed when the European Parliament (ie the directly elected representatives) have the opportunity to ratify him (or not) later in the year. Like HT, I'm puzzled at our PM's strategy with this but maybe forming alliances with representatives of other countries doesn't come naturally to someone who's both parochial and profoundly adversarial (imo).

 

[Creaky]

but there is. its no secret. a few years ago they attempted to rbing about a european constituion, until the people of various countries rejected the idea. during the recent economic troubles, there has been a power grab to centralise fiscal controls and only the Germans which fear inflation stopped an enhanced and federal based European Central Bank emerging. hence why Germany has become more aligned to the UK postion, wanting to slow things down. The EU exists for the intention of those that run it to drive towards a single unifiied state, despite the wishes of their peoples.

A unified Europe will eventually come about - the only question is which of the current EU members will be part of that Union. The idea of the UK existing alongside but outside such a Union is fantasy - ultimately the question will have to be either a complete break with most of Europe or complete integration.

 

[beorhthelm]

This concern can be allayed when the European Parliament (ie the directly elected representatives) have the opportunity to ratify him (or not) later in the year. Like HT, I'm puzzled at our PM's strategy with this but maybe forming alliances with representatives of other countries doesn't come naturally to someone who's both parochial and profoundly adversarial (imo).

it was strategic to make a point and highlight a problem at the heart of europe. he overplayed it though, having found that while many agreed few would oppose Junker, he couldnt risk being seen to give in at home. but the main point has still been made - we wont rollover for the EU super state project.

A unified Europe will eventually come about - the only question is which of the current EU members will be part of that Union. The idea of the UK existing alongside but outside such a Union is fantasy

you mean in the same way the UK exists alongside but outside the Euro? a couple of years ago it was questioned if the Eurozone would break up and by extension the further EU integration. its not nearly inevitable as some want it to be, especially as many in europe dont want rule from Germany, and Germany doesnt want to pay for everyone else.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

but the main point has still been made - we wont rollover for the EU super state.

In any sane mind a 26-2 loss is a massive defeat. Cameron couldn't have rolled over much more if he tried.

 

[beorhthelm]

In any sane mind a 26-2 loss is a massive defeat. Cameron couldn't have rolled over much more if he tried.

obviously missing the understanding of "rollover". he knew he'd be defeated after about a week of this episode. but he didnt just say "ok" you appoint who you want, and he forced a vote. remember, they weren't even going to vote originally, just have a coronation. tactically he obviously hoped more would vote against to show the sentiment of feeling, but apparently other leaders didnt want to rock the boat, even those that backed Cameroons original gambit.

 

[Ernest]

It's not been a good week for Cameron at all

 

[dingodan]

Well I don't know about you but I think the appointment of JC Junker is completely wrong.

European Elections polls showed that there are millions of people who are unhappy with how the EU is being run, not just in the UK but across the EU, so how is it that somebody who is so Pro EU gets elected? Shouldn't this position always be taken by someone who is neutral so they can listen to both sides of the story.

Funny why nobody else in the EU has the same complaints as Cameron. Could it be that the other countries rely so much on these bailouts, that the peoples voices are no longer being heard.

One way or the highway with the EU. Just proves how undemocratic the EU has become.

Yeh, this guy "won" the "election".

What's wrong with people? Don't they like "democracy"?

Now that this guy has been appointed, sorry, elected President of Europe, it's time for the people of Europe to find out about him, what he stands for, what he believes in and so on.

All sounds completely kosha to me.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

obviously missing the understanding of "rollover". he knew he'd be defeated after about a week of this episode. but he didnt just say "ok" you appoint who you want, and he forced a vote. remember, they weren't even going to vote originally, just have a coronation. tactically he obviously hoped more would vote against to show the sentiment of feeling, but apparently other leaders didnt want to rock the boat, even those that backed Cameroons original gambit.

Jesus. However you dress it up, however much straw clutching you do, he was made to look very very naive and stupid. Has it occurred to you the EU might have "allowed" this vote to ram home the point that this guy is popular and wanted by virtually everyone?

 

[crookie]

Sad really, I'm pro EU but against a US of E and I really think Junker is a bad choice and indicative of how out of touch the institution of the EU is. That said, there is a way of making your point. Cameron's megafone diplomacy I found embarrassing for our country and the outcome of the vote made his grandstanding look ridiculous. Unfortunately our permanent semi-detatchedness means we have few close allies, even among those sympathetic to his arguments. You reap what you sow

 

[Pavilionaire]

Too much is being made out of this. Nobody in this country cares about this election and not many on the continent either, I suspect.

 

[beorhthelm]

Jesus. However you dress it up, however much straw clutching you do, he was made to look very very naive and stupid.

not dressing up anything, im just providing some narrative to the background. he was never going to win this, so one has to look at why he fought an unwinnable battle. clearly he had purpose, and to not consider that really would be naive. he has ended up looking a bit stupid, but it was calculated. EU maneavours are complicated. and who exactly is this Junker fella popular with? did anyone outside hard politics hear of him before this past two weeks?

 

[Pavilionaire]

not dressing up anything, im just providing some narrative to the background. he was never going to win this, so one has to look at why he fought an unwinnable battle. clearly he had purpose, and to not consider that really would be naive. he has ended up looking a bit stupid, but it was calculated. EU maneavours are complicated. and who exactly is this Junker fella popular with? did anyone outside hard politics hear of him before this past two weeks?

Or maybe he simply didn't want Juncker but had the balls to stand up for what he believed rather than flip flop like some of these other lesser European nations?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

and who exactly is this Junker fella popular with? did anyone outside hard politics hear of him before this past two weeks?

I will answer your questions in order: 1) all of the EU leaders bar UK and Hungary. 2) He was the PM for Luxembourg for 19 years. I imagine a fair few people have heard of him as it's a profile position.

 

[cunning fergus]

Jesus. However you dress it up, however much straw clutching you do, he was made to look very very naive and stupid. Has it occurred to you the EU might have "allowed" this vote to ram home the point that this guy is popular and wanted by virtually everyone?

Really............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28014809

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Cameron made a total idiot out of himself in a desperate attempt to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP. In terms of British interests all it did is make us look both weak and untrustworthy to our EU partners.

It is so obvious that that Cameroon just decided to pick an artificial fight over this because he needed a fight with Europe over something so he can appear more EuroSceptic to UKIP voters.

Job done, pat on the back, yes he looks a total tool over this, but, well, he may not be Prime Minister next year anyway.

 

[looney]

Too much is being made out of this. Nobody in this country cares about this election and not many on the continent either, I suspect.

Your wrong there, its the beginning of the long goodbye. We didn't join a single currency because we were not compatible with it, we shouldn't have opened our boarders as we are not compatible with it(English global language, population density etc,). We needed to stop this dude as hes going to smash the city which is where Britains wealth comes from.

Im almost close to thinking Cameron engineered the defeat to speed up our exit but truth is Cameron is an imbecile on quite a few levels. He is the Ted Heath of this generation. There are a lot of people in deep denial at the mess we are in because of the eU, that will change. UKIPs vote isn't shrinking post EU election, people have made the connection between EU and mass immigration.

 

[The Modfather]

Cameron: "I don't want Juncker, and you can't make me say I do. So there!"

The others: "Whom do you want instead, David?"

Cameron: "I don't want Juncker!"

The others: "Yes, we know that. But whom do you want instead?"

Cameron: "I don't want Juncker!"

The others: "There are some toys in the corner, David. Go and play quietly, while the grown-ups have their meeting."

 

[beorhthelm]

Cameron: "I don't want Juncker, and you can't make me say I do. So there!"

The others: "Whom do you want instead, David?"

Cameron: "I don't want Juncker!"
etc...

your observation is accurate and does show a problem in Cameron's strategy. but it overlooks something else - no one else was seriously considered. so, either there are no other possible candidate in the EU or Junker had already tied up nice behind the scenes deals to get the nod. lets stop and consider in the "election" how many candidates there were, and what that suggests about the democratic processes in the EU.