[Football] Jonathan Wilson's article on Man City cup final.

[Your Mum]

Roll on

your mum's

dusty shithole.

 

[brightn'ove]

Jonathan Wilson sometimes has a tendency to be hyperbolic. City’s dominance won’t last forever, Pep’s football is designed to make sure that smaller teams don’t stand a chance as they don’t have the ability to keep up with the passing. Better teams however can get at them with pace and precision. Hence why they haven’t done well in Europe. Eventually Pep will get bored and city will have a period of rebuilding as some of their ageing players begin to leave. Chelsea dominated the league in mourinho’s first spell, United dominated the premier league for years under Fergie and look at them now. Things change, doesn’t mean we need a super league. Clubs in the bottom half of the premier league are richer than some of the proposed teams that would join this ‘super league’.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I don't know that it's really an original point. We've been talking of the big 6 being in their own little mini league, the lack of points/goals the bottom 6 achieved v top 6 or top 4. Over the last decade we've been talking about the influence of money in the premier league, the growth spurts of Chelsea and Man City being aided by the sudden influx of money giving them the chance to feed at the same trough as Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. The premier league is better than most in this respect because we have a big six v the big one in Scotland, France and Germany, the big two in Spain.

It will of course get worse with the change in split of money favouring the big 6. We may not get another Leicester, but we could get more Burnley's and Wolves - smaller teams getting into Europe and gaining extra finances, to give themselves a chance of becoming challengers to the big six without an oligarch, maybe sneak into the top four at the expense of one of the established team who will see some drop in finance at least for a season. If it happens often enough it could open up a bit more competitiveness. Or could just pull teams out of the 'big six' making it a 'big three' and the rest...

The top 6 outside of City/Pool actually lost a lot of games this season, so I think it was closer than normal this season - The issue was Leicester/West Ham start slowly - Everton where hit and miss and Wolves kept losing to bottom 6 sides (they lost to Huddersfield twice) - if there had been more consistency from these sides they could have been in the top 6.

Chelsea lost 8
Spurs 13
Arsenal 10
United 10

 

[Gritt23]

Wilson's article in the Guardian makes the case that the wealth created superiority of clubs like Man City has created such an unbalanced playing field that there is no longer any true competition at top level football. On the 6-0 slaughter of Watford he argues that ' In terms of competitiveness, you may as well have placed a yellow-and-black blancmange in the middle of the pitch and smashed it with a sky blue oar'. 'Watching Pep Guardiola’s side dismantle their opponents in the FA Cup final was gruesome and reflective of a trend across Europe that suggests the time has come for a super league'.

'But Saturday was miserable, the traditional showpiece of the English season reduced to a grim parade, devoid of any drama, there to satisfy the propaganda wing of a faraway regime. Perhaps some people enjoy watching eviscerations like this: Romans, after all, flocked to the Colosseum for fixtures between lions and Christians that were only marginally less one-sided than this. But even City fans did not seem particularly enthused, grumbling on the underground about a fifth trip to Wembley this season and cheering goals with the weary satisfaction that used to be reserved for a top-flight team battering a minnow in the third round.'

Do you agree?

Yes, completely agree, and worse. It's actually become EXPECTED that we see the glamorous BIG TEAM full of stars doing their party pieces, and scoring all their beautiful goals. A team that tries to stop them is accused of "anti-football".

Man City dismantled Watford to a greater extent than Man Utd did to us in the replay, or befell Millwall. We were a relegated team, on the comedown from a great game where we nearly performed the upset, and Millwall were a divison but, Watford were a very decent mid-table team coming off a very good season Man City could have done that to an even higher placed team, they've already done that to Chelsea this season.

We've never known dominance like it, as financial doping just puts some teams at such a ludicrous advantage that it's almost lost all sense of competition in most matches. Man City were odds-on favourites in 36 of their 38 League games this season! Get you head around that - odds-on favourites away to Tottenham, Arsenal and Man Utd!

It's not just Man City, it's football in general. Premier League was supposed to be the "best League in the World" because of how competitive it was, with bottom being able to beat top. Until Man Utd gave up for the last couple of games this season, the bottom 3 had earned precisely ZERO points against the top 6 this season. We would dismiss Scottish football, and sometimes Spanish, as being just a two horse race with the rest a mile back - yet we seem to have celebrated it here this season. For the 1st time EVER the 5 big leagues around Europe saw the title successfully defended, and which of PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Barcelona or Man City are you betting against next season.

 

[mikeyjh]

I mentioned similar elsewhere but Wilson articulated it far better than I could. I sat watching because it's the FA Cup Final, that's what you do - At 3pm on a Saturday - Banged on about the wrecking of OUR football by this money, it genuinely made me angry. Even your very own Semi Final was lauded in some quarters as some sort of relative success, because Brighton didn't get hammered. In a semi final. Some praise (I agree) Chris Hughton for getting to Brighton to 17th, is that the height of ambitions for the not so big clubs these days? Probably, yes.

It surprises me that some have taken so long to reach this conclusion, it's been going this way for quite a long time. Even as fans many of us now talk about money, income, Chief Executives on a regular basis, it wasn't so long ago that thoughts only passed to the financial side of things when your club was in court on its last legs or when you were trying to find 100k for that 20 a season striker.

We have a big game next Monday and obv we hope to win it but if we do, then what, a season hoping to not get battered most weeks? It's not much to look forward to.....

 

[southstandandy]

"Soon the Saudis will get bored and stop pumping money into City or something suspect will be uncovered and they will slowly fall away...shame!"

Love it!

 

[Gritt23]

The top 6 outside of City/Pool actually lost a lot of games this season, so I think it was closer than normal this season - The issue was Leicester/West Ham start slowly - Everton where hit and miss and Wolves kept losing to bottom 6 sides (they lost to Huddersfield twice) - if there had been more consistency from these sides they could have been in the top 6.

Chelsea lost 8
Spurs 13
Arsenal 10
United 10

Just because the rest are falling further away from City, doesn't mean we have a great, exciting League. Liverpool had their best ever season, and that meant they could run City close. The "twists and turns" of the run-in were non-existent, as City haven't dropped a single point since JANUARY! The top 2 were so far clear that it resembled the worst imaginable SPL season we've ever laughed at. We are in serious danger of a Juventus domination here, as everyone else settles for "top 4" as their main aim each season.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Just because the rest are falling further away from City, doesn't mean we have a great, exciting League. Liverpool had their best ever season, and that meant they could run City close. The "twists and turns" of the run-in were non-existent, as City haven't dropped a single point since JANUARY! The top 2 were so far clear that it resembled the worst imaginable SPL season we've ever laughed at. We are in serious danger of a Juventus domination here, as everyone else settles for "top 4" as their main aim each season.

I was quoting someone who was saying the top 6 are in a mini league.

I don't see Man City dominating much more, FFP will catch up with them, then what?

For all the celebrations of the domestic treble, Pep wasn't brought in for that - if they are not in the one cup they want more than anything they will all get bored.

 

[Gritt23]

I don't see Man City dominating much more, FFP will catch up with them, then what?

FFP has caught them, but what are you expecting in terms of a punishment? Fine? Transfer ban?

Seems to me that clubs are stockpiling players so that they can ride out a transfer ban.

 

[golddene]

I think the maximum wage had a big part to play in the variety of clubs that were successful before the mid 60s.

Quite, also the clubs made money themselves then, we as a inferred bigger club in div3south and div 3 were a good away trip for less supported clubs as our gate money in those days was shared by both clubs and the fa /fl, wages were suppressed and money was made though not necessarily kept within football ?

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

FFP has caught them, but what are you expecting in terms of a punishment? Fine? Transfer ban?

Seems to me that clubs are stockpiling players so that they can ride out a transfer ban.

It's a 2 season Champions League ban they are facing at the moment. Chelsea are facing a transfer ban for 2 windows. Both heading to CAS to appeal the decisions.

 

[lost in london]

I think some people on this thread need to have a think about our own position before wailing about Man City's money. The complaints about Man City are valid, but there are probably sixty or so professional teams in the leagues below us who could thrown the exact same arguments about Bloom's money buying our way into the premier league as you're raising about the oil money buying the title. Different end results, but cheap money got both us and Man City got where we are today.

 

[GT49er]

It's a 2 season Champions League ban they are facing at the moment. Chelsea are facing a transfer ban for 2 windows. Both heading to CAS to appeal the decisions.

Both heading to CAS to overturn the decisions. Way of the world, sadly.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

FFP has caught them, but what are you expecting in terms of a punishment? Fine? Transfer ban?

Seems to me that clubs are stockpiling players so that they can ride out a transfer ban.

Without knowing what is happening this window - The City squad is aging so it needs to be refreshed thats before the normal squad refresh you need at the end of the season.

They are being watched now, so they are not going to spend Vast sums.

Plus if they get a ban from the CL that decreases the spending ability even more.

 

[BBassic]

It's a 2 season Champions League ban they are facing at the moment. Chelsea are facing a transfer ban for 2 windows. Both heading to CAS to appeal the decisions.

They're not facing a ban. The authorities and news might be saying they are but they're not.

They're facing a fine at best. And it'll probably be an amount their owner keeps down the back of the sofa.

 

[Brovion]

He's got a point. The Premier League's USP was always that anyone can beat anyone. Someone in Asia tuned in to watch someone they'd never heard of like Brighton vs Liverpool because it would be a competitive game, and there was no reason why Brighton couldn't get the points. The same couldn't be said about Valladolid vs Barcelona, Palermo vs Juventus, Mainz vs Bayern or Nantes vs PSG, at least not with anything like the same regularity. If that dies the league has a problem.

Yes that used to be true. But the PL has been going for nearly 30 years and in some ways is a victim of its own success. It has spread the word, people have picked up on it and picked their teams. Now with 'fans' all over the world a Liverpool fan in Asia tunes in to Brighton v Liverpool and wants to see their team win in a jolly romp. The tough, competitive games are only the ones against fellow Big Six teams, the rest of us are just cannon fodder.

Obviously the PL and the Big Six know this, and I don't think they have any interest in making it more competitive - exactly the opposite. Currently they and the sycophant pundits get annoyed when the CFCs (Cannon Fodder Clubs) show a bit of resistance and don't just roll over. If more and more cash gets focused on the Big Six even that level of competitive edge will get removed. Then the foreign Big Six fans will get what they want - 10 or so competitive fixtures to make it interesting interspersed with some enjoyable goal fests.

 

[Gritt23]

It's a 2 season Champions League ban they are facing at the moment. Chelsea are facing a transfer ban for 2 windows. Both heading to CAS to appeal the decisions.

And what do you think they will end up getting? If it's a Champions League ban, I'll eat my left sock.

They can throw huge money at it, to kick it down the road before a punishment gets agreed because UEFA can't be bothered to keep fighting. It will be a fine and/or a transfer ban. That'll make absolutely no difference and everything carries on as before.

 

[Alba Badger]

The FA Cup final made fall a little out more out of love with football if i'm honest. I hope Many City get nailed to the frigging wall for breaking financial fair play. Points deductions, transfer bans and band from Europe.

 

[Gritt23]

Without knowing what is happening this window - The City squad is aging so it needs to be refreshed thats before the normal squad refresh you need at the end of the season.

They are being watched now, so they are not going to spend Vast sums.

Plus if they get a ban from the CL that decreases the spending ability even more.

Do you honestly believe there is any chance they get banned from CL? I'd love to say there was, but there simply isn't.

Aging squad? Not especially. Did you see the talent they had sat on the bench, and that didn't even include Phil Fogden. Where are they about to be weak if they get a 2 window transfer ban.

As for them "now being watched", the reality is that the authorities are completely toothless, so City will just carry on because IF they get a punishment it will be laughable. It will just encourage them to stockpile even more so they can ride out transfer bans with even more ease.

 

[blue-shifted]

I think some people on this thread need to have a think about our own position before wailing about Man City's money. The complaints about Man City are valid, but there are probably sixty or so professional teams in the leagues below us who could thrown the exact same arguments about Bloom's money buying our way into the premier league as you're raising about the oil money buying the title. Different end results, but cheap money got both us and Man City got where we are today.

Completely agree with that mate. Rather than hating Man City or any other club, the overall distribution of football finance is the thing to hate. The trouble is, we've been massive beneficiaries of this in the last few years