[Politics] Johnson blames energy price rises on Putin

[portlock seagull]

Seems to be the line for a few leaders.

Last Friday he told the French in Churchillian tones to accept that rising energy and food bills were the ‘price of liberty’, and he returned to the theme yesterday when he addressed his ministers. ‘Our system based on freedom in which we have become used to living, sometimes when we need to defend it, it can entail making sacrifices,’ said Macron. ‘This overview that I’m giving — the end of abundance, the end of insouciance, the end of assumptions — it’s ultimately a tipping point that we are going through.’

Easy out for them to blame it all on Russia, costs/inflation were going up before the invasion.

There is nothing remotely Churchillian about Johnson. He continually tries to ape his idol but doesn’t belong in the same sentence Winston. Johnson has been the worst PM this country has ever seen whilst Churchill can lay claim to being the finest.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

All of this is true (albeit cause and effect here is exacerbated by the built-in generation of obscene profits by OUR energy 'suppliers').

My objection was to Johnson taking the link, presenting it as if it is an inviolate law of nature, and not only that, but a Just law of nature, that we must all accept.

Then nothing. No measures to ameliorate its affects on our population. Nothing.

And all this to the sound of gentle applause and the nodding-dog heads of those who won't personally be affected by all this.

It was blindingly obvious what the knock on effect of sanctioning Russia was, people are happy to (rightfully) support Ukraine - but are not happy with fall out.

Cut the profits from the companies, that will do very little to the bills.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

There is nothing remotely Churchillian about Johnson. He continually tries to ape his idol but doesn’t belong in the same sentence Winston. Johnson has been the worst PM this country has ever seen whilst Churchill can lay claim to being the finest.

Luckily it was about Macron.

 

[rogersix]

He's only partly correct. It's a convienient smokescreen for Johnson to blame Putin rather than have to answer the awkward question of why governments and power companies for the last three decades have utterly failed to invest in increasing the UK generating capacity. If they had then we as a nation would be self sufficient and not beholden to global market prices. A very small percentage of our power relies on Russia - unlike Germany who are looking at rationing.

What the government should do is cap energy suppliers profits to say 10% of turnover. The surplus is either taxed at 100% and the government use it to increase capacity or the supplier can choose to pay no tax on the surplus if they invest 100% it in increasing capacity. Problem being is it won't solve the problem we have right now. Stable, door and bolted spring to mind !

And what's happened to all these new power stations Johnson promised to build ? Not one site identified, not one planning application put in, not one brick layed.

johnson has been announcing "one nuclear power station a month", for years, they must have built loads by now.

johnson is eton educated and a gentleman, his word is his bond

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Good. We are on the same page. Unless you're being factious

The only person who seemed to be up for this was Corbyn, ironically.

This is where Starmer will be too cautious. But as you say, nationalize the lot and we would have only to answer to ourselves

Apologies for my feather spitting. Your original narrative is of course correct, but every element of the landscape was put inn place by the various national leadership's choice, and not due to a natural law. It's all 'computer says no' stuff. Semi-automatic price rises designed to maintain or increase profit (as we have seen). Nuffing to do wiv me, guv. Market forces, innitt.

It reminds me of when I was poor and in financial trouble. I would go accidentally overdrawn by a tenner. Bank would send me a letter to tell me and charge me £20 for their administrative costs to do so. And so on.

Anyway....I have said it before.....the people get the governments they deserve. If the people will not countenance nationalization there is no point Labour even considering it. And when a leader has done so so he is branded a fool, maverick and becomes unelectable. Oh well. I am beginning to think I was wrong about Corbyn. Perhaps even his apparent unavowed support for Islamic terrorism may have just been a trick of the light....

I definitely wasn’t’ t being facetious. My views just don’t tally with any one part of the political spectrum which is why I upset some people on here who have a more traditional good/bad approach to politics. Thankfully never your good self. I think you have identified the perpetual problem. We all like a part of any party’s platform. I have some very left wing views, including nationalization of key parts of the economy. I don’t always vote Labour because of bigger disagreement over other policies. Unfortunately energy policy has, as you say, been cobbled together over many years and Governments. Basically we shouldn’t be starting from here. But we are. Corbyn, no thanks despite my agreement with him on nationalization. Democracy is all about compromise and getting as much as could be hoped for. The alternative is a lot worse. I am ok with Starmer’s cautious approach.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Mea culpa. I was one of those people opposed to nuclear. If only (etc.).

so was I ! Even a member/supporter of CND for a bit.

 

[Weststander]

It was blindingly obvious what the knock on effect of sanctioning Russia was, people are happy to (rightfully) support Ukraine - but are not happy with fall out.

Cut the profits from the companies, that will do very little to the bills.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

It was blindingly obvious what the knock on effect of sanctioning Russia was, people are happy to (rightfully) support Ukraine - but are not happy with fall out.

Cut the profits from the companies, that will do very little to the bills.

Indeed, is this not a [simple] case of global economics and supply and demand?

Energy demand is well understood and is met by multiple suppliers - however if you take out the biggest / largest single supplier as part of global economic sanctions [against Russia].then this puts huge pressure on remaining suppliers. The fall out from such action is price rises and these will remain inflated until additional supply can be raised to a level or surplus supply. Then prices will begin to fall again.

Supply of energy is a very complex subject - I don't believe it would have mattered a jot who was in power to influence this - the only decision that would have alleviated this price hike would have been to agree NOT to stop buying Russian energy.

Personally, I think the embargo on buying Russian energy [in support of Ukraine] was the right choice and now we are feeling the fallout of this decision in our pockets.

 

[GT49er]

Putin has blamed the EU/western Europe throughout.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russian-gas-goes-east-via-yamal-europe-pipeline-fourth-day-2021-12-24/

Whilst global markets, far more powerful than little old UK, tell THE story.

View attachment 151247

Then it boils down to what individual governments will do this autumn/winter to help consumers and businesses, through borrowing. We’ll find out in early Sept if Truss gets it, what tangibly will be done to help on top of the £400 (and £650 for the poor).

If effectively Jack Sh@t, it’ll be the final nails in the coffin for a Tory government. She couldn’t be that thick could she.

Only fly in the 'Johnson is shit and to blame for everything argument' (and I have a fair degree of sympathy for the first part of that argument) is that the horrendous wholesale fuel price rises are just down to Putin and his Nazi-like invasion of a free neighbouring country. Anyone jumping up and down and sqealing 'It's all down to Johnson, Johnson, all down to Johnson' is as mad as a box of frogs. and in their own way just as guilty of stereotyping and blind prejudice as those c**ts bleating about sending brown people back where they belong.

One lot's just as bad as the other (although some prejudices will be less vilified than others on NSC; rightly so, but the stereotyping remains as unworthy).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This is one aspect which I'm slightly surprised isn't discussed more.

As many of these companies were failing one by one, I noticed that I'd not heard of most of them.

It comes with the benefit of hindsight, but it seems pretty obvious there was insufficient regulation in place as almost any Tom, Dick or Harry could start up an energy supply business, immediately undercutting the legacy suppliers and hoovering up new customers quickly.

They were assisted by the likes of Martin Lewis/MSE and various price comparison sites who had a significant vested interest in getting people to move suppliers as they earned a sizeable affiliate kickback each time they introduced a new customer to an energy supplier.

So we had the situation where there seemed to relatively low barriers to entry, and stimulated demand encouraging new entrants to come to market.

It's now all collapsed, leaving everyone to pay the price.

Martin Lewis is venerated by many because of his dramatic language but he is indeed a part of the problem.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

We need to start fracking, for fracks sake.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Why UK energy prices are rising much faster than in Europe?

Here is the question we need to be asking. And here is an answer from an outside observer.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/19/energy/energy-prices-uk-europe-explainer/index.html

 

[Bozza]

Martin Lewis is venerated by many because of his dramatic language but he is indeed a part of the problem.

Don't get me wrong - I think he's one of the good guys, and very much on the side of the small guy against the big corporates.

Weak regulation seems to be the chief culprit of all these supplier collapses, but there was a massive and lucrative industry created around encouraging consumers to move suppliers frequently to whoever was the cheapest at the time.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Why UK energy prices are rising much faster than in Europe?

Here is the question we need to be asking. And here is an answer from an outside observer.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/19/energy/energy-prices-uk-europe-explainer/index.html

And most crucially of all the fact that UK supplies are sourced on the spot market ie at current prices. The Germans are benefitting from longer term supply contracts which were executed at lower prices although these will expire and they will then have decisions to make as they will be in the same position as us.

 

[Weststander]

Don't get me wrong - I think he's one of the good guys, and very much on the side of the small guy against the big corporates.

Weak regulation seems to be the chief culprit of all these supplier collapses, but there was a massive and lucrative industry created around encouraging consumers to move suppliers frequently to whoever was the cheapest at the time.

And virtually all the switch websites took commission on those moving, and they didn’t necessarily cover 100% the entire (complex) marketplaces.

The exception, switchwithwhich .

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And virtually all the switch websites took commission on those moving, and they didn’t necessarily cover 100% the entire (complex) marketplaces.

The exception, switchwithwhich .

We are with Ovo. I like the company ethos and their website. They are still in business and I have no intention of checking comparison websites.

 

[beorhthelm]

Don't get me wrong - I think he's one of the good guys, and very much on the side of the small guy against the big corporates.

Weak regulation seems to be the chief culprit of all these supplier collapses, but there was a massive and lucrative industry created around encouraging consumers to move suppliers frequently to whoever was the cheapest at the time.

to note it wasnt weak but intentional policy. minimal accreditation and no green levies for smaller operators, to drive down prices for those swapping, under the guise of innovation. expecting lots of green tariffs which did deliver, we'll find in the post match analysis they weren't so green. government interfere with markets, usually leads to more problems and more interference.

 

[Weststander]

We are with Ovo. I like the company ethos and their website. They are still in business and I have no intention of checking comparison websites.

I was one of Bozza’s energy switching tarts, all the way back to the 90’s. I’ve got an old energy bill just for elec dated in 1999, we were paying £14 a month for a small 3 bed detached home. The supplier, the long departed Independent Energy.

Last summer we were with Green Energy who went bust, then another company for a few weeks who went bust, finally all tidied up into Octopus who seem okay on a non rip off variable tariff.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Why UK energy prices are rising much faster than in Europe?

Here is the question we need to be asking. And here is an answer from an outside observer.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/19/energy/energy-prices-uk-europe-explainer/index.html

Doesn't really tell us anything that we don't already know. The price is going up in Europe too ("Europe's gas is still eye-wateringly expensive. It was trading at €242 ($244) per megawatt hour on Friday, an all-time high, according to Auxilione. That's much higher than the spot price for UK gas, which is trading at an equivalent of €160 ($161) per megawatt hour") but the consumer is shielded from the increases by government intervention in France and Germany. So consumers are not paying for it directly but taxpayers are, which is exactly what will happen here once someone pulls their fingers out and makes a decision.

This is interesting though "Germany declared a gas crisis in June after Russia cut flows through the vital Nord Stream 1 pipeline by two-thirds, bringing the country one step closer to rationing gas to industry."

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1563910318505566208?s=20&t=u7PmZZOfQGvsH2wCDgcrkg

Cheery thread to what he thinks will happen, I imagine he’s spot on.