Joe mason to Bournemouth

[El Presidente]

When does the albion announce their losses? Apologise for the stupid question.

They have sent in their accounts to the FL but don't have to publicly post them until 31 March

 

[Dave the OAP]

Out of curiosity, why SHOULD Tony Bloom subsidise your football club every year to the tune of £10-15million a year, as some here seem to be advocating?

Isn't that the job of every club chairman in Europe? Football clubs cannot be self sustaining, that model has been proved to be false over the last god knows how many years. Therefore a lot of clubs have a set of directors who all put money into the club. There are a few whose clubs are playthings of the rich and they are the only supply of money as they don't want anyone else to be seen to have control.

Bournemouth seem to have also acquired that sort of chap now.

 

[El Presidente]

Isn't that the job of every club chairman in Europe? Football clubs cannot be self sustaining, that model has been proved to be false over the last god knows how many years. Therefore a lot of clubs have a set of directors who all put money into the club. There are a few whose clubs are playthings of the rich and they are the only supply of money as they don't want anyone else to be seen to have control.

Bournemouth seem to have also acquired that sort of chap now.

The Glazers have put nothing into United. Barca and Real are also bank financed

 

[Notters]

Remember, if you breach FFP targets this season there are NO sanctions or penalties, and I anticipate when the Albion announce their losses they will be eye watering.

I dont think that's true is it? I thought the sanctions started next season for this season's losses?

 

[Dave the OAP]

The Glazers have put nothing into United. Barca and Real are also bank financed

Well, the glazers funded the purchase and running of the club by mortgage on old Trafford and PIKs which were all paid off last year, so technically they actually have. ( not the mortgage yet obviously)

As you know there is this debate in Manchester circles and arguments are made on both sides.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I dont think that's true is it? I thought the sanctions started next season for this season's losses?

I think we will see loses of about 5-6 million this season.

 

[saafend_seagull]

Exactly. The losses are met out of his private money, and why should he when he has already paid for the Amex, Lancing, almost 3 seasons of £8m p.a. losses at the Amex, and the bulk of the Withdean era losses? All adding up to well over £100m.

No evidence that Bournemouth are breaching the rules.

But pretty obvious that Leicester and Forest are (both would not have greater club turnover than us, but look at their squads full of quality), in a mad dash for the PL. The FL penalties will be small in comparison to PL riches. I hope the transfer embargo is transferred to the PL if they make it.

Sorry where is the evidence about Leicester? 30% wAge bill cut this season.

 

[El Presidente]

I dont think that's true is it? I thought the sanctions started next season for this season's losses?

Sorry you are right. I worded it badly. There are no sanctions for the accounts announced this year (30 June 2013)

 

[Dave the OAP]

How can the losses be eye watering?

We have some of the best attendances in the league, one of the highest prices, therefore income must be the best, huge sponsorship of the club from Amex and loads of sales of tat including food and drink.

Our wages can't be that huge as we only look to have one or two big type players, ulloa possibly. We don't pay a penny in repaying bloom his investment.

I can only assume if your comment is correct, we are fundamentally insolvent!

 

[El Presidente]

The Glazers took out a 100% mortgage and paid for the repayments to date by increasing prices and introducing scams such as the Auto Cup enrolment scheme.

United's net transfer spend over the last 5 years is lower than that of Stoke

 

[Pavilionaire]

Last year's accounts will show more lossses but this season we're up on transfer dealing, cut the wage bill, made savings on the running costs courtesy of Barber and still have Bridcutt to sell. I believe we should have enough in the budget for £2 million spending in this window.

 

[Hamilton]

One is lesson is to stop buying players from the English leagues. Their values and wages are vastly over inflated.

I'm all for going back to the continent.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

I don't care what Bournemouth do to be honest - never rated Mason and some of the valuations for him are ridiculous. It seems unlikely we'll get another forward in now but I don't have a problem with that as Oscar only has eyes for ever playing with one striker anyway. Why would anyone want to come to us to be a bench player like Obika. I think it's possible we may get a midfielder to cover Crofts or Bridcutt assuming he goes but I can't see much more happening than that.

Out of interest, why does it now seem unlikely we will get another striker? We have almost two weeks until the transfer window closes. I assume we have more targets than Grabban and Mason (who may still come to us).

 

[Rich Suvner]

How can the losses be eye watering?

We have some of the best attendances in the league, one of the highest prices, therefore income must be the best, huge sponsorship of the club from Amex and loads of sales of tat including food and drink.

Our wages can't be that huge as we only look to have one or two big type players, ulloa possibly. We don't pay a penny in repaying bloom his investment.

I can only assume if your comment is correct, we are fundamentally insolvent!

I would hope the club isn't making a profit right now. A decent accountant should be ensuring that our tax liability is minimal, and with expenditure on ground and training facilities I would anticipate we won't make a profit for quite some time. It doesn't however mean the Albion isn't sustainable, as in the past. I'd treat figures carefully in that context.

 

[El Presidente]

I would hope the club isn't making a profit right now. A decent accountant should be ensuring that our tax liability is minimal, and with expenditure on ground and training facilities I would anticipate we won't make a profit for quite some time. It doesn't however mean the Albion isn't sustainable, as in the past. I'd treat figures carefully in that context.

Even a crap accountant can ensure we won't pay any tax as we have about £40 million of losses to bring forwards from prior years.

 

[Triggaaar]

Last year's accounts will show more lossses but this season we're up on transfer dealing, cut the wage bill, made savings on the running costs courtesy of Barber and still have Bridcutt to sell. I believe we should have enough in the budget for £2 million spending in this window.

Should TB be willing to fund another £8m loss, then I'd think we can spend even more. We managed to buy CMS & Buckley a couple of years ago, Ulloa 1 year ago, and this time round our income should be higher, and we've sold players. And that's even if we don't sell Bridcutt.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I can last year's figures being losses but not £8mill, maybe £3 or £4mill. We didn't have full capacity for the whole season, we has Vicente and Dobbie's wages too, although we did have some big cup and play- off matches.

 

[martin tyler]

Isn't that the job of every club chairman in Europe? Football clubs cannot be self sustaining, that model has been proved to be false over the last god knows how many years. Therefore a lot of clubs have a set of directors who all put money into the club. There are a few whose clubs are playthings of the rich and they are the only supply of money as they don't want anyone else to be seen to have control.

Bournemouth seem to have also acquired that sort of chap now.

I personally don t think that is true at all. A lot of clubs are self sustainable accross Europe. I would prefer is to follow a model of Arsenal say than Manchester city or Chelsea. Arsenal as a club are now fully sustainable. All debts paid off large new stadium and now in a position to spend big on players like Ozil without breaking this model.

 

[Rugrat]

How can the losses be eye watering?

We have some of the best attendances in the league, one of the highest prices, therefore income must be the best, huge sponsorship of the club from Amex and loads of sales of tat including food and drink.

Our wages can't be that huge as we only look to have one or two big type players, ulloa possibly. We don't pay a penny in repaying bloom his investment.

I can only assume if your comment is correct, we are fundamentally insolvent!

Like El Pres comment yours is assumptive too. Unlike you I imagine our wages are pretty high by comparison to many, no evidence just a feeling. Given the high season ticket proportion of gates then our prices aren't too much out of step and I "assume" that the running costs of the Amex, all the backroom and admin plus the transport subsidy puts our non playing costs as high as anyone else in this league. We don't know what the Amex deal was although I assume it to be better than Andrews Air Conditioning at Charlton!! There was a nice article someone posted here about cost to income and all sorts of other financial indicators for the year before last and as I recall we didn't look too healthy then (disregarding the cost of Amex build) ... wish I could find that piece

Fundamentally insolvent may not be wide of the mark but no different to many others ... making a profit, even breaking even is nigh on impossible without the benefit of a nice on off such as a Zaha deal and I don't see that changing much with or without FFP

As I've said elsewhere many blame a lot on FFP but I'd imagine TB has only so much he wants to invest and will underwrite losses but only to a point.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Like El Pres comment yours is assumptive too. Unlike you I imagine our wages are pretty high by comparison to many, no evidence just a feeling. Given the high season ticket proportion of gates then our prices aren't too much out of step and I "assume" that the running costs of the Amex, all the backroom and admin plus the transport subsidy puts our non playing costs as high as anyone else in this league. We don't know what the Amex deal was although I assume it to be better than Andrews Air Conditioning at Charlton!! There was a nice article someone posted here about cost to income and all sorts of other financial indicators for the year before last and as I recall we didn't look too healthy then (disregarding the cost of Amex build) ... wish I could find that piece

Fundamentally insolvent may not be wide of the mark but no different to many others ... making a profit, even breaking even is nigh on impossible without the benefit of a nice on off such as a Zaha deal and I don't see that changing much with or without FFP

As I've said elsewhere many blame a lot on FFP but I'd imagine TB has only so much he wants to invest and will underwrite losses but only to a point.

Which is my argument about one single owner or investor...we don't know but I would hope the other directors are prepared to dip in...but with just him in control, maybe this is nor possible