[Albion] Joao Pedro Brazilian Maestro

[Bakero]

Loads of them do, given the proximity. Failing that, the Argies (and all the other Latino countries) and Brasilieros converse in ‘Portuñol’, which is a hybrid of the two……….

In the border regions maybe but it's not that widespread, is it? Despite the shared vocab and grammatical structures, spoken Portuguese and Spanish are far from mutually intelligible (the written form is easier to decipher for a speaker of one of the languages).

 

[dazzer6666]

In the border regions maybe but it's not that widespread, is it? Despite the shared vocab and grammatical structures, spoken Portuguese and Spanish are far from mutually intelligible (the written form is easier to decipher for a speaker of one of the languages).

I don’t speak either Spanish or Portuguese that well but did a lot of work in South America with people that did (working with native speakers of both languages plus non-natives fluent in one or both) and it seemed pretty common - at least in Sao Paulo, Rio, Belo H and BA. Definitely seemed more obvious in border areas though as you say (had a discussion about it in Iguacu). The latin stem is very similar…..former colleague of mine (Brit) who studied Spanish then lived in Brazil for years always maintained you just replace ‘n’ with ‘m’ and speak through your nose

 

[Live by the sea]

Most young ish Portuguese people have an understanding of English because a lot of American & English tv shows shown in Portugal are shown in the original language. In Spain they are dubbed . Hence the difference when you go to the two countries in their understanding.

 

[Bakero]

I don’t speak either Spanish or Portuguese that well but did a lot of work in South America with people that did (working with native speakers of both languages plus non-natives fluent in one or both) and it seemed pretty common - at least in Sao Paulo, Rio, Belo H and BA. Definitely seemed more obvious in border areas though as you say (had a discussion about it in Iguacu). The latin stem is very similar…..former colleague of mine (Brit) who studied Spanish then lived in Brazil for years always maintained you just replace ‘n’ with ‘m’ and speak through your nose

In my experience, Portuguese speakers are much more likely to understand Spanish than vice versa. Your colleague's n for m and increased nasality is a good tip. For European Portuguese, I recommend speaking Spanish with a Russian accent

 

[Bakero]

Most young ish Portuguese people have an understanding of English because a lot of American & English tv shows shown in Portugal are shown in the original language. In Spain they are dubbed . Hence the difference when you go to the two countries in their understanding.

Very true.

 

[clapham_gull]

Most young ish Portuguese people have an understanding of English because a lot of American & English tv shows shown in Portugal are shown in the original language. In Spain they are dubbed . Hence the difference when you go to the two countries in their understanding.

Each country has its own history regarding whether it prefers subtitles or dubbing and whilst it may have an effect it usually has little to do with learning English.

Firstly dubbing is way more expensive than subtitling, some countries even preferring a consistent voice artist who "plays" the same actor. So economics are in play.

Secondly (historically) certain countries such as France and Spain have gone through periods of thinking their culture is at threat from foreign media. They don't want English language films in their cinema. If so they want the original language removed.

You've also got the oddity of "lectoring" (not lecturing) in Poland where a single person describes the action mixed over the original language soundtrack. It goes back to communist times where the authorities wanted to control the dialogue.

Watching TV / Films is supposed to be something to do to relax and once a market has got used to something over time it's very very difficult to get them to take to something else.

What's known as the "localisation industry" is going to subjected to massive change with AI. It's already happening.

Eventually the job of the voice artist will disappear or it will become significantly less well paid.

Firstly the technology is already there to get Tom Cruise to speak French or get a computer to talk like Tom Cruise in French....

.. or simply recreate the voice of the existing French actor.

Secondly one of the well paid skills of the voice artist is match as close as possible to the mouth of the talking actor. No need for that in the future. You just digitally recreate the mouth movements according to the language and you won't even notice and at a push only in close up.

Subtitles will be produced and translated automatically.

AI is ripping through that industry. There used to be loads of companies worldwide but now are starting to consolidate.

 

[Bakero]

Each country has its own history regarding whether it prefers subtitles or dubbing and whilst it may have an effect it usually has little to do with learning English.

Firstly dubbing is way more expensive than subtitling, some countries even preferring a consistent voice artist who "plays" the same actor. So economics are in play.

Secondly (historically) certain countries such as France and Spain have gone through periods of thinking their culture is at threat from foreign media. They don't want English language films in their cinema. If so they want the original language removed.

You've also got the oddity of "lectoring" (not lecturing) in Poland where a single person describes the action mixed over the original language soundtrack. It goes back to communist times where the authorities wanted to control the dialogue.

Watching TV / Films is supposed to be something to do to relax and once a market has got used to something over time it's very very difficult to get them to take to something else.

What's known as the "localisation industry" is going to subjected to massive change with AI. It's already happening.

Eventually the job of the voice artist will disappear or it will become significantly less well paid.

Firstly the technology is already there to get Tom Cruise to speak French or get a computer to talk like Tom Cruise in French....

.. or simply recreate the voice of the existing French actor.

Secondly one of the well paid skills of the voice artist is match as close as possible to the mouth of the talking actor. No need for that in the future. You just digitally recreate the mouth movements according to the language and you won't even notice and at a push only in close up.

Subtitles will be produced and translated automatically.

AI is ripping through that industry. There used to be loads of companies worldwide but now are starting to consolidate.

As @Live by the sea said though, there is a discernible consequence of the choice of dubbing over subtitles. Hours of listening to language and becoming tuned into its sounds and rhythm is invaluable for a learner.

A cursory look at those that dub (Italy, France, Spain) and those that don't (Portugal, Sweden, the Netherlands) tells its own story. German and Poland stand out as notable exceptions to the rule.

The lectoring thing is indeed weird. They do the same in Vietnam. Korean soaps with a single female-voiced translation are inexplicably popular.

Re. AI:

 

[Machiavelli]

Each country has its own history regarding whether it prefers subtitles or dubbing and whilst it may have an effect it usually has little to do with learning English.

Firstly dubbing is way more expensive than subtitling, some countries even preferring a consistent voice artist who "plays" the same actor. So economics are in play.

Secondly (historically) certain countries such as France and Spain have gone through periods of thinking their culture is at threat from foreign media. They don't want English language films in their cinema. If so they want the original language removed.

You've also got the oddity of "lectoring" (not lecturing) in Poland where a single person describes the action mixed over the original language soundtrack. It goes back to communist times where the authorities wanted to control the dialogue.

Watching TV / Films is supposed to be something to do to relax and once a market has got used to something over time it's very very difficult to get them to take to something else.

What's known as the "localisation industry" is going to subjected to massive change with AI. It's already happening.

Eventually the job of the voice artist will disappear or it will become significantly less well paid.

Firstly the technology is already there to get Tom Cruise to speak French or get a computer to talk like Tom Cruise in French....

.. or simply recreate the voice of the existing French actor.

Secondly one of the well paid skills of the voice artist is match as close as possible to the mouth of the talking actor. No need for that in the future. You just digitally recreate the mouth movements according to the language and you won't even notice and at a push only in close up.

Subtitles will be produced and translated automatically.

AI is ripping through that industry. There used to be loads of companies worldwide but now are starting to consolidate.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Are you, and/or close colleagues, at risk?

 

[clapham_gull]

A cursory look at those that dub (Italy, France, Spain) and those that don't (Portugal, Sweden, the Netherlands) tells its own story. German and Poland stand out as notable exceptions to the rule.

Re. AI:

Germans very prescriptive about their localisation, they like any English on screen graphics to be overlaid as well.

And to throw into the mix, Polish market now requesting English Subtitles to help them learn English.

Norwegians well known as the best subtitlers in the world. It's almost an art form.

 

[clapham_gull]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Are you, and/or close colleagues, at risk?

I don't work in the localisation industry, but I'm on the client end where I work a lot with it (hundreds of thousands) particularly subtitles. Mainly in a technical capacity.

My personal opinion ? Anything that makes subtitles for the hard of hearing (particularly) better, or enhances the viewer experience is a very good thing.

The vast majority of "localisation" is very good, but there is still some shocking stuff out there.

It's just one of those things where the whole industry will have accept a computer does a better job eventually.

Those companies are embracing it (effectively becoming technology companies) , but I think they will only survive if they bring their prices down. You can't be charging ££££ per minute to translate something any more.

 

[Si Gull]

In my experience, Portuguese speakers are much more likely to understand Spanish than vice versa. Your colleague's n for m and increased nasality is a good tip. For European Portuguese, I recommend speaking Spanish with a Russian accent

This is so true! Whenever I hear Portuguese being spoken my immediate thought is that it's Russian.

 

[Machiavelli]

This is so true! Whenever I hear Portuguese being spoken my immediate thought is that it's Russian.

I'm the same.

 

[clapham_gull]

As @Live by the sea said though, there is a discernible consequence of the choice of dubbing over subtitles. Hours of listening to language and becoming tuned into its sounds and rhythm is invaluable for a learner.

A cursory look at those that dub (Italy, France, Spain) and those that don't (Portugal, Sweden, the Netherlands) tells its own story. German and Poland stand out as notable exceptions to the rule.

The lectoring thing is indeed weird. They do the same in Vietnam. Korean soaps with a single female-voiced translation are inexplicably popular.

Re. AI:

A lectoring story, you probably won't hear another.

Working at a company a number of years ago, a heads up came in from the transmission company (it's all separate companies these days) that swearing had gone out well before the watershed, in the middle of the day in Poland. I think it may have been subject to a further viewer complaint.

Quite a big deal so we looked at the schedule and were surprised to see a Take That concert was playing. Quite unusual to subtitle / lector a concert beyond perhaps comments between songs. If there wasn't much chitty chat you sometimes wouldn't bother so we were convinced it was a mistake.

When we got the audio back, it turned out it had been "lectored" minimally, because there was a bit of footage backstage with dialogue.

So did Gary, Mark or Howard drop the F-word ?

No the lector dropped his pen on the floor in the middle of recording.

Because of his limited involvement in the programme nobody bothered to check it.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Wow this thread has gone high brow for a football forum

It never fails to impress me how many worldly wise and intelligent posters we have on NSC. There can’t be many football clubs in the UK who have a forum that can match the level of discourse on here?!

(And some say we’re arrogant fans! )

 

[Bakero]

Wow this thread has gone high brow for a football forum

It never fails to impress me how many worldly wise and intelligent posters we have on NSC. There can’t be many football clubs in the UK who have a forum that can match the level of discourse on here?!

(And some say we’re arrogant fans! )

High brows and big balls.

 

[WhingForPresident]

Back on topic, I really, really like the cut of his jib. Nice to have a player with a bit of edge that has that confident swagger that we lack, and justifiably so. Great technique, strong, fast.. it's rare for a player with his talents to have the understanding of the game that he does at his age. Unbelievable that he is only just 22. Think he will go on to be a very special player in the coming years.

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

You are to be applauded - getting NSC back on track!
I know we often can’t trust home fans’ views but those Watford supporters who said he was excellent were correct! Evan is still the best natural finisher - I hope those two will develop well together

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Oh Joao!

Played so well but just lacked that composure at the end, you could have won it for us!

 

[keaton]

Oh Joao!

Played so well but just lacked that composure at the end, you could have won it for us!

Not sure poor composure rather than poor reactions. But it got a deflection and was bouncing,I think it looked a far worse miss than it really was

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Not sure poor composure rather than poor reactions. But it got a deflection and was bouncing,I think it looked a far worse miss than it really was

Ah, that is reassuring. I did say to my mate that I wondered if it did a bit of a bounce. And yes reaction would be a better word.