Jo Konta - the 'British' thing

[portlock seagull]

I beg to differ. People form an affinity for the familiar surrounds as they grow up, and develop a sense of nationality (which has nowt to do with ethnicity) whether they like it or not (with a relatively small number of perverse exceptions, like the home grown jihadis). The only way this will end is if the majority of people actually move around from country to country with a regularity. Few people are peripatetic. Most of us like to be settled. Look how hard it is for adults who emigrate - many can't cope and 'go back home'. A bloke who worked for me went back to Hungary on one fifth the salary even though he could have stayed here for ever, because the lure of the familiar and family were too great.

I am rather fond of my nation state, crap though the present government may be.

It's a hard one to get your head round, especially anyone over age of 15 or 20. But just like the new food revolution that's happening right now - with chicken legs never coming from a live chicken but being genetically the same as if taken from the clucking fowl itself (!) - technology is driving all of this at ever accelerating rates. The world is shaping up to be very different at a frightening or some might say exciting pace and Nationality is meaningless. Increasingly people don't share even the same language let alone heritage, culture, religion that used to define us. So why should some outdated concept like Nationality in the age of globalisation define people. It's just too generic and already the fault lines and cracks are there to see. City states like Birmingham and Manchester are rising just as 'Italian' States did before unification.

Nope, nationalities are doomed. Just look at the 'united' states of America as another example. Anything but these days.

 

[Brighton Mod]

It's a hard one to get your head round, especially anyone over age of 15 or 20. But just like the new food revolution that's happening right now - with chicken legs never coming from a live chicken but being genetically the same as if taken from the clucking fowl itself (!) - technology is driving all of this at ever accelerating rates. The world is shaping up to be very different at a frightening or some might say exciting pace and Nationality is meaningless. Increasingly people don't share even the same language let alone heritage, culture, religion that used to define us. So why should some outdated concept like Nationality in the age of globalisation define people. It's just too generic and already the fault lines and cracks are there to see. City states like Birmingham and Manchester are rising just as 'Italian' States did before unification.

Nope, nationalities are doomed. Just look at the 'united' states of America as another example. Anything but these days.

You're so right, we're all Europeans in Europe, except the Germans, who are German. There is the odd exception.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's a hard one to get your head round, especially anyone over age of 15 or 20. But just like the new food revolution that's happening right now - with chicken legs never coming from a live chicken but being genetically the same as if taken from the clucking fowl itself (!) - technology is driving all of this at ever accelerating rates. The world is shaping up to be very different at a frightening or some might say exciting pace and Nationality is meaningless. Increasingly people don't share even the same language let alone heritage, culture, religion that used to define us. So why should some outdated concept like Nationality in the age of globalisation define people. It's just too generic and already the fault lines and cracks are there to see. City states like Birmingham and Manchester are rising just as 'Italian' States did before unification.

Nope, nationalities are doomed. Just look at the 'united' states of America as another example. Anything but these days.

Chicken legs never coming from a 'live' chicken? I think you may be attempting to pull my genetically engineered plonk. Next you'll be tlling me about the nw drugs craze sweeping the nation : 'cake'.

Truth be told, Nationality is far from meaningless. Americans are ultra patriotic (towards their nation more than their state, although for some it is towards only half the nation). That's (partly) why they elected Trump.

I admire your new age idealism (if you are for real), but just because you may happen start the day with an iced macrobiotic latte, and spend more time on the Finnish News Channel than BBC1 doesn't mean that everyone else is, or is just about to become a pan-national, pansexual spaceman/thing.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

To be honest, I've lived in England all of my life (although born and bred in the south), yet lived up and down the country due to university/work etc. I've also travelled all over the world.

Yet I've not once felt British. I don't actually know what being British means. I'm English, nay I'm a "southerner". But I don't feel British.

Long and the short of it... Being classed as British itself doesn't mean anything to me, so I seriously don't care that she's "British". Then again, I've never been that fond of Murray, even though I'm supposed to care because he's British.

 

[nicko31]

She's Australian where tennis talent is concerned. It can't be claimed as a victory for British tennis if she wins. I'm not bothered about which flag she plays under, or which nationality she considers herself to be. I'm just bothered if the LTA claim her progress as some sort of sign. It's not.

She is true red, white and blue Brit. Go Jo...

 

[portlock seagull]

Chicken legs never coming from a 'live' chicken? I think you may be attempting to pull my genetically engineered plonk. Next you'll be tlling me about the nw drugs craze sweeping the nation : 'cake'.

Truth be told, Nationality is far from meaningless. Americans are ultra patriotic (towards their nation more than their state, although for some it is towards only half the nation). That's (partly) why they elected Trump.

I admire your new age idealism (if you are for real), but just because you may happen start the day with an iced macrobiotic latte, and spend more time on the Finnish News Channel than BBC1 doesn't mean that everyone else is, or is just about to become a pan-national, pansexual spaceman/thing.

See post below your one!! As for 'am I real', you've more cheek than your mum!

 

[portlock seagull]

You're so right, we're all Europeans in Europe, except the Germans, who are German. There is the odd exception.

Far from it, Germany only invented in 1871. Bavarians as short time ago as 1920s were separatists and to this day think of themselves as a, well, a bit 'Cornish'. Many other Regions similarly hence the Federation (a Confederation before that etc)

 

[larus]

Nationality and the Nation State is soooo 20th century. It's becoming more meaningless by the year. Anyone can say they're British. American etc but does that mean we have anything more in common other than the same queue at airports etc? Nah, whether you're a home grown jihadi, born here or have taken the citizen test, we're all British on paper but that's where the commonality ends. Christ, Brexit shows even if two people are white, middle class and middle aged indigenous chances are they can't agree on anything and share nothing in common so it's a redundant concept.

Nope, the age of Nationalities is over. More likely to be categorised as an Apple, Amazonian, Googlite or a Facer in years to come the corporates are already more powerful than most countries anyway.

Wow. What complete and utter shite. I know there's this thing about 'European", but the majority of Europeans view themselves as Polish, Italian, Greek, Spanish, etc. first and European is a secondary thing. It may seem trendy to talk about being a person of the world, but the reality is people are naturally tribal and want an identity. All you are suggesting is a rebranding as corporate identity which is complete bollocks.

 

[portlock seagull]

What is Roger Federers native tongue? This should add to this debate, because he doesn't speak Swiss.

Precisely. Swiss think of themselves as ItalianSwiss etc. Bit like Oz, nationality is almost for administrative purpose: everyone feels a NSW, Victorian etc to the point they play different sports and are regionally independent. People don't feel Country first i.e. nationality! It's part of a bygone era now - what it means to be British and English especially, varies enormously in the modern sense as to make our nationality redundant. Brexit anyone?!! More divides than unites us these days because we're so much more ethnically diverse as is the case in many other countries.

 

[portlock seagull]

Wow. What complete and utter shite. I know there's this thing about 'European", but the majority of Europeans view themselves as Polish, Italian, Greek, Spanish, etc. first and European is a secondary thing. It may seem trendy to talk about being a person of the world, but the reality is people are naturally tribal and want an identity. All you are suggesting is a rebranding as corporate identity which is complete bollocks.

Sorry, I withdraw all my comments in the face of such intelligent argument...

 

[larus]

Precisely. Swiss think of themselves as ItalianSwiss etc. Bit like Oz, nationality is almost for administrative purpose: everyone feels a NSW, Victorian etc to the point they play different sports and are regionally independent. People don't feel Country first i.e. nationality! It's part of a bygone era now - what it means to be British and English especially, varies enormously in the modern sense as to make our nationality redundant. Brexit anyone?!! More divides than unites us these days because we're so much more ethnically diverse as is the case in many other countries.

So much of the world is still nationalistic and not "One World" (or whatever trendy phrase people want to devise). Look at China, Japan, Russia, India, etc. They don't view themselves as being "one world". The problem with some western countries is we have had so much immigration we have lost our 'national identity', or should I say, the nationalistic side is associated with extremism. The Scots, Welsh, Irish are incredibly proud of their nationality and are not afraid to demonstrate it. In England we are, for fear of being thought of as racist, due to the adoption of the flag by the far right. The nation state is alive and well and although it may go through many changes as it has done throughout time, it is far from dead.

 

[Is it PotG?]

GO GO JO JO

 

[Questions]

The only person who can truly answer it is the person themselves. What do they feel in their heart.

Qualification rules is a different discussion.

 

[portlock seagull]

So much of the world is still nationalistic and not "One World" (or whatever trendy phrase people want to devise). Look at China, Japan, Russia, India, etc. They don't view themselves as being "one world". The problem with some western countries is we have had so much immigration we have lost our 'national identity', or should I say, the nationalistic side is associated with extremism. The Scots, Welsh, Irish are incredibly proud of their nationality and are not afraid to demonstrate it. In England we are, for fear of being thought of as racist, due to the adoption of the flag by the far right. The nation state is alive and well and although it may go through many changes as it has done throughout time, it is far from dead.

Who said it was dead?

 

[Brighton Mod]

Far from it, Germany only invented in 1871. Bavarians as short time ago as 1920s were separatists and to this day think of themselves as a, well, a bit 'Cornish'. Many other Regions similarly hence the Federation (a Confederation before that etc)

Yes indeed, started with the Zollverein, 13 states coming together to form a trading area, Bismarck had no trouble bringing them together for the Franco Prussian War, then the kaiser was able to gather the coherent spirit of Germany, Hitler afterwards coalesced the nation and when the wall came down the togetherness appeared very quickly. They may be a young nation in terms of age, but they have identity and now control Europe, which includes the puppet President of Europe Junkers.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Precisely. Swiss think of themselves as ItalianSwiss etc.

As someone who has worked for a Swiss company for over 20 years, alongside hundreds of Swiss colleagues, I can categorically declare that statement complete nonsense. Regardless of which of the nation's three official languages is their 'first' (they pretty much all speak all three - and English - anyway) I've never met ONE who would consider themselves anything but Swiss foremost.

 

[Gritt23]

She's a Brit for me. She has British nationality, so that makes her British. As for her tennis, then anyone who thinks she was a top player waiting to happen when she arrived has got it very very wrong. She chose to represent this country, to live in this country, to pay our taxes, and become a nationalised Brit. That'll do it for me.

The amount of people who struggle to properly get behind someone because their background falls somehow short of their requirements for being a "true Brit" does really baffle me. We don't know these people, they are not our friends, so we choose who to support. Why would you not choose someone who lives here, and is a British national, over an American, when clearly nationality is the basis for your choice? "Nah, don't like him/her, not properly British, so I'll cheer for that Slovakian instead." Logic?

 

[portlock seagull]

As someone who has worked for a Swiss company for over 20 years, alongside hundreds of Swiss colleagues, I can categorically declare that statement complete nonsense. Regardless of which of the nation's three official languages is their 'first' (they pretty much all speak all three - and English - anyway) I've never met ONE who would consider themselves anything but Swiss foremost.

As someone who is married to a Swiss, I can categorically say what you say is Balderdash. Truth somewhere in between perhaps.

 

[nicko31]

Precisely. Swiss think of themselves as ItalianSwiss etc. Bit like Oz, nationality is almost for administrative purpose: everyone feels a NSW, Victorian etc to the point they play different sports and are regionally independent. People don't feel Country first i.e. nationality! It's part of a bygone era now - what it means to be British and English especially, varies enormously in the modern sense as to make our nationality redundant. Brexit anyone?!! More divides than unites us these days because we're so much more ethnically diverse as is the case in many other countries.

From my experience of living in Oz there is state rivalry, but they are very patriotic despite being ethnically diverse, it can verge on the jingoism at times when it comes to sport, I didn't see any bygone era there.

 

[SUIYHP]

The real question is: What is a nation? We like to think we 'know' what the nation is but there is no definition that is satisfying enough, sure you could just open a copy of the Oxford Dictionary and say it is 'a country considered as a group of people with the same language, culture and history, who live in a particular area under one government' but as we are aware, there are numerous languages that are spoken in Britain, there are people with different cultures, different histories and different pasts, yet many of us define ourselves as 'British', I'd consider myself British, but my mother is the daughter of two immigrants, and I'm pretty sure the majority of people who say they are British are descendants of people who were not born in Britain. Winston Bloody Churchill's mum was born in America, yet no-one has ever questioned his nationality.

If Jo has the passport, lives here, and wants to proudly represent the country, as many other great athletes have, then she is British.