Jimmy Carr - I do not pay a penny more tax than I have to.

[Mo Gosfield]

It is all very simple and the tax experts have been saying it for years. You have a flat rate of income tax for EVERYBODY.
It has been proved that if everybody paid a flat rate ( around 15% ), irrespective of earnings above the minimal level, the exchequer would collect more money.
So why does the government do nothing about it?
They obviously have a vested interest in maintaining the present structure ( turkeys voting for Christmas? )











BOVE A certain levelw

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

So everyone on here who would 'tweek a bit off the taxman' accepts that means cuts to the NHS etc? Because I don't think you can have it both ways.

It depends whether you see 'tweaking' and what Carr was doing as the same thing. I am not sure when you are on PAYE how you tweak - but I see that as different as say choosing to opt out of PAYE to avoid paying your contribution to fund public services.

And especially when a person has made a living out of criticising others for doing so.

Off with his f***ing head.

 

[Simster]

But surely, if it's morally wrong, the amount is irrelevent, otherwise, where's the cut-off point ? £200 a month is ok, but £1000 a month is "repugnant" - sorry I don't see the logic there. Again, I'm not ok with what he's done, but I blame the lawmakers, not the people who take adavantage of it - as long as the're doing so legally.

No one is saying that either example is right, but I think most of us would agree that a man who can spend £8.5m on buying a house outright in cash is behaving more reprehensibly by paying just 1% of his earnings in tax than a mortgage broker who has hit times and is looking to fleece the taxman of a fee hundred quid a year. It doesn't make either person right, but there is a moral judgement that can be made here.

I wonder what the rate would need to be for tax receipts to remain as they are if all taxes (corporation, income, vat, inheritance etc) were the exact same rate? Would a flat rate close the majority of loop holes at the same time. One for one of our NSC bean counters?

Edit: It seems [MENTION=17103]Mo Gosfield[/MENTION] has answered the question. 15%

 

[clippedgull]

Carr has now tweeted saying that he has left K2 after having made a terrible error of judgement.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

No one is saying that either example is right, but I think most of us would agree that a man who can spend £8.5m on buying a house outright in cash is behaving more reprehensibly by paying just 1% of his earnings in tax than a mortgage broker who has hit times and is looking to fleece the taxman of a fee hundred quid a year. It doesn't make either person right, but there is a moral judgement that can be made here.

I wonder what the rate would need to be for tax receipts to remain as they are if all taxes (corporation, income, vat, inheritance etc) were the exact same rate? Would a flat rate close the majority of loop holes at the same time. One for one of our NSC bean counters?

Edit: It seems [MENTION=17103]Mo Gosfield[/MENTION] has answered the question. 15%

There was a group the other day advocating an absolute flat tax - I think they said 30%, but I may be wrong on that. Abolishing lots of things like capital gains etc. - presumably removing all the possibilties of loopholes. I would presume they'd done their calculations to make it work. I can't remember who they were exactly, but they weren't "nobodys" exactly.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Carr has now tweeted saying that he has left K2 after having made a terrible error of judgement.

If that is true - he must be shitting himself.

 

[clippedgull]

If that is true - he must be shitting himself.

Well it's on the BBC

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Well it's on the BBC

Sorry clippedgull - I was not doubting your honourable word. I don't follow twitter so doubt it as a completely reliable source.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

They're not going to be hard to find either. Virtually every wealthy person and successful business avoids tax. Cameron has made a big mistake opening this can of worms.

I agree they shouldn't be hard to find but disagree it was wrong to open the can of worms. By opening the can of worms Cameron now has to be seen to act on the problem.

 

[clippedgull]

Sorry clippedgull - I was not doubting your honourable word. I don't follow twitter so doubt it as a completely reliable source.

I omitted the source as the BBC, my error!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Carr has now tweeted saying that he has left K2 after having made a terrible error of judgement.

So I guess Cameron can claim a success. Hopefully more highly paid starts will now be exposed.

 

[clippedgull]

bit more flesh on the statement from SKY...


Comedian Jimmy Carr has issued a statement apologising for his "terrible error of judgement" in using a tax avoidance scheme.

Earlier this week it emerged that Carr had been using an aggressive, legal scheme which enables members to pay income tax rates as low as 1%.
The comic, who has famously lampooned fat cat bankers, was reportedly protecting some £3.3m a year by channelling cash through Jersey-based company K2.
But in the statement Carr said he was "no longer involved" in the scheme and added that he "will in future conduct my financial affairs much more responsibly".
He said:"I appreciate as a comedian, people will expect me to 'make light' of this situation, but I'm not going to in this statement as this is obviously a serious matter.
"I met with a financial advisor and he said to me 'Do you want to pay less tax? It's totally legal'.
"I said 'Yes'.
"I now realise I've made a terrible error of judgment."
He spoke out after Prime Minister David Cameron branded his tax dodging "morally wrong".

 

[Aadam]

From his twitter feed:

I appreciate as a comedian, people will expect me to ‘make light’ of this situation, but I’m not going to in this statement as this is obviously a serious matter. I met with a financial advisor and he said to me “Do you want to pay less tax? It’s totally legal.” I said “Yes.” I now realise I’ve made a terrible error of judgement. Although I’ve been advised the K2 Tax scheme is entirely legal, and has been fully disclosed to HMRC (Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs), I’m no longer involved in it and will in future conduct my financial affairs much more responsibly. Apologies to everyone. Jimmy Carr

I doubt anyone else will follow suit, unless they're named and shamed. And what about all the back tax you've avoided? I doubt that's going to be paid either.

 

[Simster]

And what about all the back tax you've avoided? I doubt that's going to be paid either.

Well, quite. "Error of judgement" my arse, he's acting in pure self interest. It's funny how when some punter pulled him up for it at one of his stand up routines he treated it like a joke and ripped them to shreds over it. Now he can feel the wrath of the nation and funnily enough it's not a joke anymore. It seems to me that someone who often picks easy targets in an attempt to sound edgy can't take it when people are picking on him.

 

[Meade's Ball]

But if you earned millions and could save hundreds of thousands in tax, would you do it?

Good grief no. But then, i suppose, if i were a greedier, ambitious git then i might have made millions in the first place. As i'm not and generally have no expectations of any glitz or glamour or collection of hand-knitted nepalese yak ties then i should fairly comfortably stay as i am. I certainly haven't lived a life of perfection, certain sins my middle names, but giving any thought to all that would be lost for others for me to make gain, then i would like to think morality would overtake greed in me.

Reading the Independent yesterday i was struck by the following statement in a comment piece concerning tax evasion:
Of the £7bn annually lost to the Treasury through fancy tax avoidance, according to the Times, individuals account for £4.5bn. This is roughly five times what this Government hopes to claw back from the disabled by cutting or withdrawing their benefits.

Ok i doubt that everyone claiming to be disabled necessarily is, but in solving the financial problems of this society i would start at the top and work down rather than the other way around.

 

[leigull]

Shame it took him to be named personally until he found his guilty conscience, rather than the months/years that tax avoidance has been a massive topic of discussion

 

[Aadam]

Good grief no. But then, i suppose, if i were a greedier, ambitious git then i might have made millions in the first place. As i'm not and generally have no expectations of any glitz or glamour or collection of hand-knitted nepalese yak ties then i should fairly comfortably stay as i am. I certainly haven't lived a life of perfection, certain sins my middle names, but giving any thought to all that would be lost for others for me to make gain, then i would like to think morality would overtake greed in me.

Reading the Independent yesterday i was struck by the following statement in a comment piece concerning tax evasion:
Of the £7bn annually lost to the Treasury through fancy tax avoidance, according to the Times, individuals account for £4.5bn. This is roughly five times what this Government hopes to claw back from the disabled by cutting or withdrawing their benefits.

Ok i doubt that everyone claiming to be disabled necessarily is, but in solving the financial problems of this society i would start at the top and work down rather than the other way around.

THIS.

If the government put as much effort into chasing tax avoiders like him as they do chasing the sick and disabled they would be in a much better financial position!

 

[DJ Leon]

I agree they shouldn't be hard to find but disagree it was wrong to open the can of worms. By opening the can of worms Cameron now has to be seen to act on the problem.

It is a can of worms for him. And he can't act on the problem, he just can't it's too widespread amongst the rich and very powerful. What's he going to do now? Start on Phillip Green? Richard Branson? Vodafone? Google? Facebook?

Of course I think he should. I think our global economy should take tax avoidance more seriously. We wouldn't be in the mess now if we did. BUT - that's the job of politicians. I personally don't blame any individual / company for avoiding taxes. We all do it to some degree (pensions? ISAa?), it just that those schemes open to the rich are more elaborate and effective. The idea that NSC is full of benevolent angels who if they earned a lot of money would totally cease to care about saving money is, frankly, laughable.

 

[Seagull58]

Jimmy Carr is an unfunny, arrogant prick IMO and I hope HMRC clean him out. I have earnt a 6 figure salary at times (due to high commission payments) and I have never argued or even grumbled about paying my fair share at 40%. If he doesn't want to pay his fair share of UK tax he should move somewhere else and not come back.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

He hasn't broken any laws though, it may be morally dubious or unjust but it's not illegal. It's upto the government to close these loop-holes when they are exposed. Although it won't take a decent accountant long to find another one.

Didn't say he had, just said I felt it was morally wrong and still feel that way. He has now said this, albiet belatedly, but as you say they are probably introducing scheme no 265aii(2) now!